Author Topic: On pak.ngb, some heavy/overcrowded trains don't run at full speed when passing..  (Read 1191 times)

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Offline fam621

..a stop signal. I have noticed that, some heavy/overcrowded trains don't run at full speed when passing a stop signal. I have provided a save and the pakset used. Link to save: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bzy63vjRdV2_YlpMVmxvc3FiQm8. Link to the pakset (from Carl Bakers GB map): https://www.dropbox.com/s/usnfhzto624surb/UK-Mar17.rar?dl=0.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 04:42:39 PM by fam621 »

Offline jamespetts

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I am not sure that I understand the issue: a stop signal can be a type of absolute block signal, thus there is no inherent inconsistency between a signal being a stop signal and a signal being of the absolute block working method. Can you elaborate?
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Offline Vladki

Just a wild guess. I think that pak.ngb is not yet updated to new signalling in extended. Signals with old code will be treated by simutrans extended as if:
working_method=track_circuit
max_speed=160
default_danger=0 (i.e. default clear).
Is that what you see happening?
Also some fast and heavy trains will slow down when approaching the signal, if it is not preceded by distant signal. (And the braking distance is longer than visibility of signal).

Offline fam621

Yes Vlad. Also, which .tab would that be in?

Offline Vladki

The above options are DAT file options. So unless you have sources (dat+png) you cannot change them. The only thing you can set in simuconf.tab is sighting distance of signals.




Offline fam621

Just a wild guess. I think that pak.ngb is not yet updated to new signalling in extended. Signals with old code will be treated by simutrans extended as if:
working_method=track_circuit
max_speed=160
default_danger=0 (i.e. default clear).
Is that what you see happening?
Also some fast and heavy trains will slow down when approaching the signal, if it is not preceded by distant signal. (And the braking distance is longer than visibility of signal).

How do you some make fast and heavy trains treat the signals like the ones on the British-Ex pakset Vlad?

Offline Ves

Fam, you need to compile the signals your self from dat-files and png-files. Look at the thread called: "datfile reference for: signals and signal boxes" found as a sticky thread at the top in this forum (I'm on the mobile phone, so i can't link it). In that thread you find all the parameters you need to make your own signals :)
Alternatively, look in the sources of pak.britain-ex in a file called signal.dat (or signals.dat, don't remember on top of my head), and copy over the signals that you want to make your own version of. Remember to make sure that the day-files point to the correct png-files! :)

Offline fam621

Really the problem is when some heavy/overcrowded trains don't run at full speed when passing a stop signal. Is there a way to edit that or is it how it was designed?

Offline Ves

 You need presignals, and those has to be coded the way I described.

Offline fam621

So, what your saying is that I need distant signals so the fast/heavy trains can pass at full speed (or use them has the signals), however the max speed of the signals are 160km/h which affects my ECML route which has a max speed of 125mph.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 05:56:54 PM by fam621 »

Offline Rollmaterial

The general rule is that a signal is assumed to be at danger as long as its aspect isn't known, hence the need for distant signals when the braking distance exceeds the sighting distance in track circuit block. As for the permitted speed, you need to create your own signals (by producing graphics, writing .dat files and compiling them with Makeobj-Extended) or import some from other paksets that support the new signalling system (by placing the .pak files in the pak.ngb folder). In the latter case you will probably need to import the relevant signal boxes too. Maybe Carl could make the sources for pak.ngb available, that way you could just add the relevant parameters to the .dat files and compile.

That said, would it be sensible to add simuconf parameters for the default working method and sighting speed?

Offline fam621

You see Roll, I am not good to compiling stuff, all that I am good at is doing liveries for trains for pak.ngb. Also, I find that some instructions are too complex for me.

Offline Ves

Fam, then I'm sorry that I think you will have to wait until (if) the author of pak.ngb (is that Carl?) updates his pakset.

It is very fun, btw, to create own content to the game, compile it and see it work in the game! I remember when it worked for me the first time, it was monumental! :)
And it is very easy too: go to the wiki page (linked all over the place in the forum) and read on. It really is very simple! I think I seem to remember describing the process to you a while back :)

Offline Carl

The signals in this pak (which is a bespoke set for a specific map rather than a maintained pakset) are the default ones for pak64, albeit with slightly adjusted graphics. The original versions should be in here somewhere; https://github.com/jha4ceb/pak64.experimental.

Offline Rollmaterial

Fam, tell us which words you don't know and I will try to help you.

Offline Ves

Fam, you don't need to quote that long post in here, I think Carl would know where to look if he wants to look for that information. Also, he will do what he wants when he wants, no point in begging him to do stuff for you. Secondly, it really is very simple to do this your self:

• Create a new text file called signal.dat
• Copy the lines starting with
obj=roadsign
name=
copyright=
...
...
cost=

.. and fill in what values you want

• Add all lines down to "working_method", and fill them with values

Now you have 13 lines (also called entries), all with some values in the signal.dat

• If your signal is supposed to be a presignal, you use is_presignal=1, if it is a stop signal you just type is_signal=1
Now you have 14 lines

• now pick just the parameters that you want, read their description to find out what it does, if you don't understand write here ad we will explain.

• Regarding the graphics, Carl said you could find the signals somewhere in his link. Take the graphic file you want and place it next to your own signal.dat and rename it to signal.png, so you now have two files: signal.dat and signal.png. In the signal.dat you enter:

image[0]=signal.0.0
image[1]=signal.0.1
Etc..
the coordinates to the right of "signal" points to the coordinates in the signal.png, the top left signal has coordinate 0.0, the top second from left has 0.1 the second row left most has 1.0 etc (I don't know how the picture looks like, I have not seen it).

If your signal have only two aspects you need 8 of these entries, the first four being the four rotations of DANGER, the last four being CLEAR. Also you need the icon and cursor, look at the example in the text you quoted.

• Download a makeobj from the devel-new folder I maintained (can't link it from my mobile phone), rename it to makeobj.exe and put it next to your two existing files.

• Now rightclick in the folder and create a new text file and rename it to "pak.bat" so you now have a total of four files next to each other.

• Rightclick on pak.bat and copy the following:

Code: [Select]
makeobj PAK
And save and close the file

Now double click on pak.bat and it should create a pak file for you.

Now the next post I want to see from you is with a picture of your newly created signal! :)

.. or if you have some question regarding a specific point above.