Started by fam621, November 16, 2017, 08:14:58 PM
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Quote from: fam621 on November 16, 2017, 08:46:53 PMAnd how do I do that?
Quote from: fam621 on November 16, 2017, 09:02:30 PMClass 801s are not bi-mode its electric only and actually the class 800s are already bi-mode (ish) as they can be bought from a electric depot
Quote from: jamespetts on November 16, 2017, 09:07:42 PMBut nevertheless, they are coded as diesel, and so have the performance that these units have when running on diesel power.
Quote from: fam622 on May 27, 2018, 06:09:53 PMThey have near enough the same performance as when they are running on electric power and also a new bi-mode veriant of the IET fleet is coming as well in the form of the Class 802.
Quote from: fam622 on May 29, 2018, 02:18:42 PMIf you go onto that page which was linked by ACarlotti, table 1 is where the information for the Class 800/801/802s are reguarding power and power to weight ratios.
Quote from: jamespetts on May 29, 2018, 02:48:04 PMYes, I have seen that table. That does not give tractive effort, nor does it have any information regarding the power which is in any way inconsistent with what is in the pakset, save that what is in the pakset has not been adjusted to take into account the down-rating of the diesel engines. Is what you wanted the down-rating of the diesel engines? That would create an even greater difference in the performance between the diesel and electric versions.I am afraid that I am extremely unclear on precisely what you think is wrong with the actual figures for power and tractive effort, given that you have not cited any sources that give any different figures (aside from the downrating).
Quote from: fam622 on May 29, 2018, 04:11:58 PMCan an up-rating of the engines increase acceration as a temp measure until I/we get the exact tractive effort?
Quote from: fam622 on June 03, 2018, 02:04:19 PMThe power/tractive force in game is (for the Class 800s): 700 kV/55 kN. For the Class 801s its also 700 kV but its kN is: 62 kN.
Quote from: fam622 on June 03, 2018, 03:50:24 PMWhat I think is wrong is that the Class 800s tractive effort is far slower than the Class 801s tractive effort.
Quote from: fam622 on June 03, 2018, 06:47:50 PMThe data is on the acceration rate from 0mph-125/140mph from start to stop.
Quote from: fam622 on June 04, 2018, 04:40:02 PMIf I'm honest. I dont think that I can find any information reguarding the IEP acceration rate but Ik from watching YouTube videos there acceration rate is much faster.
Quote from: jamespetts on June 04, 2018, 04:51:47 PMI cannot really calibrate a specific figure as to tractive effort from that, I am afraid.
Quote from: SouthernTransport225 on September 30, 2018, 11:07:59 AMUnfortunately, there is no source which provides tractive effort. But the trains do have very good acceleration both on and off electric mode (as in they have just as good of acceleration on diesel mode)
Quote from: SouthernTrains100 on October 22, 2018, 11:53:17 AMIn my opinion, I think that the Class 800/801 IETs might have near enough the same tractive effort as the Class 385s
Quote from: jamespetts on October 23, 2018, 11:33:24 AMYou mean the livery scheme? You can certainly add one of those: just add one to the end of the livery schemes section in the pakset specific simuconf.tab. You will see the correct format by looking at the others.As for the acceleration being "very good", as I believe has been discussed on this thread now quite a number of times, such vague information is unusable. I need numerical data for calibration. Please do not keep asking me to adjust the tractive effort based on unusable vague information. If you have numerical data on actual acceleration rates on the flat with a specific configuration/formation, you can run your own tests in-game to deduce the correct tractive effort by testing to see whether it accelerates to the given speed within the correct number of tiles at 125m/tile based on the source data, and, if it does not, adjust the tractive effort multiplier in the advanced settings dialogue (press the "i" key to access) until it is correct. This multiplier can then be reset in the advanced settings dialogue but multiplied by the tractive effort figures given in the class 800's .dat files. If you do this, you will need to give me full information on the numerical source so that I can verify its accuracy, and also upload the saved game that you used for testing.
Quote from: SouthernTrains100 on October 23, 2018, 07:35:06 PMWhere can I find these .dat files?
QuoteWhen you clone the Github repositories in the relevant part of the tutorial, use this link for the .png and .dat files (i.e. the pakset repository):https://github.com/jamespetts/simutrans-pak128.britain.gitand this link for the 3D models:https://github.com/jamespetts/Pak128.Britain-blends.git
Quote from: thegamer7893 on April 05, 2019, 12:49:56 PMComing back to this (after some while), will it be possible to make the class 800/801 have the same livery variants.
Quote from: jamespetts on April 05, 2019, 01:12:51 PMIf you would care to modify the files accordingly and test them, I should be happy to include such a change.
Quote from: thegamer7893 on April 05, 2019, 04:11:47 PMThe only thing is now is that the IET fleet will not carry Virgin livery and now carry the LNER livery and also that I am no good at doing such stuff.
Quote from: thegamer7893 on April 06, 2019, 10:12:03 PMAbout the acceleration rate thing, did you say that you wanted the acceleration rate in horsepower, because I found the horsepower for the class 800s on wiki. and the horsepower is 750 (560 kW) per engine (for I assume diesel).
Quote from: jamespetts on April 06, 2019, 10:32:17 PMThe power is easy to find - it is the tractive effort that governs acceleration and that is hard to find (as discussed extensively above).
Quote from: thegamer7893 on April 11, 2019, 03:27:39 PMJames, how did you find the tractive effort for the other trains in Simutrans?
Quote from: jamespetts on April 11, 2019, 03:42:28 PMIf they were not available on Wikipedia or another source, I had to guess based on extrapolating from other locomotives or multiple units whose tractive effort is known. Generally, it is easy to find the tractive effort of locomotives, but difficult to find the tractive effort of multiple units. I believe that I did manage to find somewhere the tractive effort for some of the "Desiro" series of multiple units (the class 450, etc.), but I could not find it for many other units, and had to extrapolate many of the other modern units from this.
Quote from: Freahk on September 14, 2019, 07:09:32 PMWiki states that it has an acceleration of 0.7m/s² and a weight of 243t (5 cars set) or 438t (9 cars set)As 1N:=1kg*m/s², this results in a tractive effort of 243000kg*0.7m/s²=170kN (5 cars set)438000kg*0.7m/s²=307kN (9 cars set)Could not find acceleration data nor weight for class 801Please let me know for which trains you need tractive effort, maybe I can assist in this.Edit: forgot to mention about brake force.As Wiki states class 800 has a deceleration of 1m/s² in service, or 1.2m/s² in ermergency, this would result in243kN or 292kN (5 cars set)438kN or 526 kN (9 cars set)Only thing you have to do now is calculate it down to single cars as I don't know how the engines are spread over the train.
Quote from: jamespetts on September 22, 2019, 02:54:39 PMFreahk - thank you for this: this is most useful.As you may be aware, we do not have any means of simulating bi-mode traction in the game at present, so the class 800 represents this as a diesel train and the class 801 represents this as an electric train. In reality, these are almost identical save that the class 801 has fewer diesel motor cars. The Wikipedia article does not specify whether the acceleration rate given is for diesel or electric power, and I suspect the latter. I have thus adjusted the class 801's tractive effort accordingly, and used a guessed figure for the 800 (being the previous figure for the 801). I have also updated the brake force based on your calculations and corrected the weight.If you are able to extrapolate the correct tractive effort for any other multiple unit aside from the Desiro series, that would be very helpful, as that is the only unit for which I have actual tractive effort figures, I believe (I have a vague recollection that I might have a tractive effort figure somewhere for a much older electric multiple unit, but I cannot be sure now and I cannot remember which). Likewise, if you are able to calculate the brake force for any modern multiple units, that would be most helpful. For reference, we use the maximum service braking rate in the game, not the emergency rate.
Quote from: Freahk on September 26, 2019, 08:46:50 PMSorry but you are wrong.Class 801 is only in service at electrified tracks but in fact, the 5 car trains and the 9 car trains, both do have one (instead of 3 or 5 in case of class 800) diesel motors installed, allowing them to continue their journey at very limited speed and providing electrical energy e.g. for light using the installed 580 kW diesel generator, which is installed under the second last car, in case tracks electrification fails.
Quote from: thegamer7893 on November 16, 2017, 08:14:58 PMHello James, I have just finished playing Simutrans and I notice that the class 801 has better acceleration the the class 800 and for some reason they are not livery variant so what I mean is that the class 800 should be able to have the Virgin Trains livery and also to have the same acceleration rate as its no different in real life whether its on diesel or electric. So can that be a possible fix please?
QuoteDiesel engine has correct power 700 kW
Quote from: jamespetts on May 25, 2020, 12:52:00 PMFor the tractive effort, may I ask how you are calculating this;
Quote from: Freahk on May 25, 2020, 02:07:39 PMF=m*a or in units 1N=1kg*1m/s²
Quote from: jamespetts on May 25, 2020, 04:11:53 PMit is good to know that the physics engine works as intended!
Quote from: Freahk on May 25, 2020, 05:03:30 PMWell, apart from serious rounding troubles at low power, force or speeds at least.The physics engine is quite impressive anyways.
Quote from: jamespetts on May 25, 2020, 04:11:53 PMThat is helpful - it is good to know that the physics engine works as intended!
Quote from: Vladki on May 25, 2020, 06:25:25 PMClearly the performance on diesel is worse...