Started by jamespetts, December 01, 2017, 02:51:34 AM
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Quote from: fam621 on December 01, 2017, 10:40:31 PMI cant join the server now for some reason
Quote from: AP on December 01, 2017, 11:20:24 PMCan anyone explain why industries are not producing? (e.g. colliary at 1041,1930 - it's fully connected).
Quote from: asaphxiix on December 02, 2017, 01:09:46 AMThe coal merchant ordered 28 tons, and you have 28 tons en route. The factory won't produce any more until you deliver those.
Quote from: AP on December 02, 2017, 08:49:12 AMOh god, is that behaviour still present?! Never mind it will take months to arrive... hard to build a network with such intermittent flows?
Quote from: fam621 on December 02, 2017, 09:31:19 PMHow do you join a mismatched server.
QuoteThe system for taking account of goods in transit is necessary for industry supply to work properly. The idea is that an industry will not demand that more goods be put in transit if, having regard to the goods already in transit and when they are likely to arrive, the industry will be adequately stocked.
QuoteFor example, if an industry demands 10 units of cargo per game month, and units of cargo take one half of a game month to arrive, then an industry will demand that more units be put into transit when it has 5 or fewer units left, assuming none are already in transit. If there are already 5 units in transit, the industry will only demand that more cargo be put in transit if there are fewer than 5 units in storage.
Quote from: DrSuperGood on December 02, 2017, 10:24:11 PMExcept it is not factoring in the unknown wait time as the goods have and will never will depart.
QuoteExcept the transport buffer capacity is likely a lot larger than 10 units and the actual transit time might as well be infinite.
QuoteThe main problem with industry currently is the illogical destinations. I decided to start from an island with fish. The idea being fishing for profit and delivering the food. The problem is that ships hold between 500 and 1500 units of food yet the industries work in 10-20 units per month.No problem I will combine it with other industries from the island and.... Oh wait all industries on the island go to completely different locations that are at least 100km separated. No problem I will add passengers and mail for a bit of... Oh wait practically no mail is sent and passengers will only travel for 7 hours odd by ship instead of the 20+ needed to reach the destination market for the fish.End result with fishing is one makes profit from fishing itself, but delivering the food is a loss as one needs 4-8 ships running at <1% capacity with at least 1 month intervals to even have a hope that the market will be continuously stocked and not some arbitrary total limit is reached.The question we should all ask is why are we having to ship food 200 km away in 1750? That is a considerably more modern practice and was not even really possible back in the 1750s due to inability to refrigerate. The fresh fish would be landed and smoked/salted/fermented and sold at a markets near where it was landed, not 200km away. If everything was kept within 20-40km one could have a few ships moving around a variety of goods that are well utilized. This is why AP says the starting money is orders of magnitude to small, as to build an efficient network spanning 40,000 km^2 one needs a lot of money and days of human effort.
QuoteI am afraid that I am unable to parse that sentence. Can you elaborate? Why will the goods never depart?
QuoteI am not sure that I follow this. Why exactly might the actual transit time as well be infinite?
QuoteHave you noticed a lot of industries that are a long way from their suppliers?
QuoteAs to the ships, the ships' storage is realistic so far as I can find (unless you are aware of any data to suggest that it is too large?
QuoteHowever, it was not usual to transport fish by sea (other than in the original fishing boats) in the 1750s. Until the canals came, only coastal towns had a supply of saltwater fish. Inland towns might have had a small supply of freshwater fish from rivers, lakes or wiers. This returns to the question of the spacing of industries as discussed above.
Quote from: DrSuperGood on December 03, 2017, 04:23:21 AMBecause the industry will not order enough product to fill the ship up enough for it to ever depart. If the ship cannot ever depart the journey time might as well be infinite.
Quote from: jamespetts on December 02, 2017, 11:33:47 AMEdit: Incidentally, is the issue more about the total number of industries on the map? This would be easier in principle to fix, but would require restarting the map. Working out the best industry to town ratio is not easy: I specified 5 industries per town when I generated this map, albeit then manually added quite a number of small villages. Any testing to determine the optimal level of this ratio would be much appreciated.
Quote from: jamespetts on December 03, 2017, 09:27:47 AMIncidentally, what ships are you using for these operations? Ships such as the East Indiaman and even the Brig were generally used for ocean voyages. The schooner (I think that there is one in the pakset) would have been used for coasting (i.e., sailing with cargo between different ports on the same coast), which is what some of the industru y will require if it is configured realistically.
QuoteQuote from: jamespettsHave you noticed a lot of industries that are a long way from their suppliers?Practically all of them on the map are like this. It is very difficult to find a journey that is not about 100-200km away. That said practically none are across the entire map so there is some locality.
Quote from: jamespettsHave you noticed a lot of industries that are a long way from their suppliers?
Quote from: jamespetts on December 02, 2017, 10:39:18 PMInland towns might have had a small supply of freshwater fish from rivers, lakes or wiers. This returns to the question of the spacing of industries as discussed above.
Quote from: APIt depends if we are of the view that 'one game industry' represents 'one real world industry', or represents many? The map has a lot of industries, but I'm not sure the sum output of them all is at the level it should be for the map size and population being simulated. There isn't "enough stuff" being produced to bother transporting.In 1750 there is inevitably a heavy bias to agricultural industries, which seems reasonable.
Quote from: Ves on December 03, 2017, 10:44:16 PMHmm.. I still do get a "server did not respond" trying to connect via load savegame
Quote from: Ves on December 03, 2017, 11:08:08 PMThanks, finally got in!However, I experience desyncs quite fast. I have not had the possibility to mod my name and set a password, or so I think.And gosh, it takes a long time to connect!
Quote from: jamespetts on December 03, 2017, 10:36:23 PMI have also identified and fixed the problem with industry distances to consumer - the fix will be available in to-morrow's nightly version. This raises an important question: would people like me to restart the map from scratch now with the correct industry distances before too much time is spent on this map? I note from the discussion above that the incorrect industry spacing has been causing serious balance issues; but I do not want to erase everyone's networks and start afresh without consulting those who have constructed those networks.
QuoteOkay, what company is it called and if it has a password. Can you give me it via PM please.