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Cab signalling transition to Moving block working

Started by kaurna, February 27, 2022, 02:00:46 AM

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kaurna

Hi,

When I try to have signal work on a strech of line, no juction just straight free track, a train travelling in the line with cab signal when the train meet first moving block beacon ( which correctly spaced per max distance rule from this first signal ) it slows down low speed in drive by sight until it passes first moving block beacon.

Can train achive transion from cab signal to moving block without slowing down?


Matthew

I don't know the answer to your question, but I want to say, welcome to the International Simutrans Forum, kaurna!
(Signature being tested) If you enjoy playing Simutrans, then you might also enjoy watching Japan Railway Journal
Available in English and simplified Chinese
如果您喜欢玩Simutrans的话,那么说不定就想看《日本铁路之旅》(英语也有简体中文字幕)。

PJMack

I would recommend only having signal type transition occurring at stations where the trains would be stopping anyway.  As to why the trains are slowing down, I can think of three explanations.  1) This is a feature.  The behavior of slowing down may be reflective of real-world practices and safety procedures.  2) This is a bug.  It is possible that the intended behavior is to have the transition occur at speed.  If you can get the the transition to work in game in some circumstances but not others (except as described below), then I would file a bug report.  3) A signal was recently removed.  In the real-world, a train driver knows every signal on the route and will slow down/stop and operate on emergency procedures when he/she comes across a missing signal.  This is emulated simutrans-extended in that if a signal is deleted when a train is en-route, the train will revert to drive-by-sight mode until the next signal or destination.

kaurna

#3
Quote from: PJMack on February 28, 2022, 06:51:03 PMI would recommend only having signal type transition occurring at stations where the trains would be stopping anyway.  As to why the trains are slowing down, I can think of three explanations.  1) This is a feature.  The behavior of slowing down may be reflective of real-world practices and safety procedures.  2) This is a bug.  It is possible that the intended behavior is to have the transition occur at speed.  If you can get the the transition to work in game in some circumstances but not others (except as described below), then I would file a bug report.  3) A signal was recently removed.  In the real-world, a train driver knows every signal on the route and will slow down/stop and operate on emergency procedures when he/she comes across a missing signal.  This is emulated simutrans-extended in that if a signal is deleted when a train is en-route, the train will revert to drive-by-sight mode until the next signal or destination.

I read in-game help for moving block signal working, it repeats that moving block is latest signal working method, in certain circumstances it is more ideal to use fixed block reservation like in complex juction to avoid locking the juction. So follwing this help text, I installed moving block only in streach of free track without juction, but when there is diverging juction middle of line far from station, or departing signal at stations platfroms where there are often immediate juctions leaving station, I protect these juctions with fixed block types like in cab signal. Once train is clear of juction departing station, or in middle of line, I want signal working to return to moving block.

1. It would be intersesting to know, this is standard procedure per ETCS operation.

2. I found in certain part of the network transtioning from in-cab or any fixed block to moving block does not slow down to drive by sight untill it passes first moving block beacon.




3. This is why I enjoy simutrans extended! Neat realistic features! :)

Octavius

Quote from: kaurna on February 28, 2022, 11:12:41 PM1. It would be intersesting to know, this is standard procedure per ETCS operation.
Moving block signalling is supported by ETCS level 3, but AFAIK no such railway line exists (yet). Moving block signalling is also supported by the LZB rail safety system, used on German high speed lines and some metro systems. French high speed lines use TVM (fixed block cab signalling, multiple aspects, going from full speed to stop in 4 stages). Stations and their surroundings are protected using older systems (like PZB/Indusi with light signals in Germany), which is required by the conventional trains, not equipped for cab signalling. So the change between the old and the new signalling system happens at the end points of the high speed lines, away from the stations and at speed – typically at the highest speed supported by the old system.

CK

Similarly, switching from track circuit block to moving block and vice versa also causes hiccups (such as a train moving at 1 km/h until it has reached the next tile). And then there's the edge case of switching from time interval with telegraph to track circuit block - also leads to suboptimal results.

Switching from track circuit block to an ATO system very much occurs in real life on the Thameslink route.

Sirius

I am quite sure this is a bug, not a feature.
transitioning between any working methods should be possible on the fly.
Surely token types still require a stop for token exchange but that's not specific to switching working methods.

kaurna

This is still buggy, cannot really utilise moving block since this bug

Sirius

This seems to be in the wrong section of the forums.
Can anyone move this to bugrepors please?
Maybe it gets more attentioon over there.