Started by Sarrus, May 24, 2018, 07:52:51 AM
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Quote from: Sarrus on May 24, 2018, 07:52:51 AMHello,At first I must say I love Simutrans-Extended and will never play Simutrans-Standard again. It's first transport simulation game with somehow realistic signaling system. That's really great job!I like how complex it is, but in result, it is very hard. I changed configuration, so I cannot bankrupt. This allow me to play more than a year. After three years (1913) I am deeeep under 0 and cannot get profit on literaly any line. My local buses sometimes gets full and sometimes runs empty, just like in real life.My question is how to set values in simuconf.tab to make it easier? I know there is beginner mode, but as far as I know it has limited features (eg factories accepts all amount of cargo). What I'm thinking is to double revenue for passenger or reduce by half maintenance costs. That will give me possibility to play around and learn how things works.
Quote from: THLeaderH on May 24, 2018, 11:56:33 AMAs far as I know, the most effective way to make a simutrans game financially easier is to raise the fare. The fare can be set by a modification of good.Passagiere.pak.
Quote from: Sarrus on May 24, 2018, 08:17:19 PMMy short research lead me to this file: https://github.com/jamespetts/simutrans-pak128.britain/blob/master/goods/goods-128.dat. I need to make modification and build it somehow with makeobj right? If am I right, can you tell me what exactly I need to change?
QuoteIndustrial connections will break if they are not served at least once every game month.
Quote from: DrSuperGood on May 25, 2018, 11:15:24 AMAs mentioned the pakst is only roughly balanced until 1870 at the moment. Even with modifying everything in a spreadsheet it still takes a while to determine fixed cost values as I have to make an estimation on how many employees are needed.It is worth noting that some vehicles will never be balanced. For example the SS Great Eastern never particularly made profit, a big driving factor for its early scrappage. One certainly cannot fill it with the current passenger generation model in extended, which would be the optimum revenue model. Since such vehicles were never mass produced, it is possible they require special mechanics limiting their number and availability in exchange for other perks.
QuoteThere were no extrinsic factors preventing more than one ship to the design of the SS Great Eastern being built - no doubt
Quote from: jamespetts on May 25, 2018, 10:23:41 AMMatthew - thank you for your detailed analysis - that is most useful. Some of the things to which you refer are intentional (such as the pace of the game - designed to be played in large online games over many months of real time, albeit fast forward can be used in single player mode and only being able to have a profitable 'bus network in a town of a size that in reality would sustain a profitable 'bus network); some of them are as a result of known issues (the lack of consumer industries) or the game not being fully balanced yet;
Quotebut an issue I am not aware of and I should be grateful if you could elaborate upon them. The issue is this:May I ask what you mean by "break" here?
Quote from: Matthew on May 28, 2018, 12:23:15 AMand they find out that they're getting an multiplayer online-only game
Quote[It's] very difficult to line up freight routes in such a way that factories keep running ... I found it so fiddly that it took the fun out of the game.
QuoteThe word "extrinsic" was intended specifically to exclude economics, as economics are simulated: we do not need to have a mechanism that simulates nothing that exists in reality just to force the same result as can be obtained by what actually occurred. It makes no sense to change the fundamentals of the game to accommodate specific vehicles: either the SS Great Eastern will, when the game is properly balanced and international destinations are introduced, find a niche, albeit perhaps a small one, in which it is a useful vessel, or this ship will not be useful to those players who wish to run a profitable company, but might still be of interest to sandbox players.
Quote from: ACarlotti on May 28, 2018, 07:03:38 AMI disagree with the implication (presumably worded more strongly than you intended) that this is a multiplayer online-only game. I played through almost 40 years of game-time (starting from 1750) on a map of my own, from about December to February, and found it quite enjoyable. I haven't run this map much since I started contributing to development - so it wasn't issues with playing that stopped me. However, I was running the game almost continuously throughout this (real) time, and was having some trouble with memory/cpu usage as well.
Quote from: jamespetts on May 28, 2018, 10:19:03 AMA clarification is necessary, I think: I did not mean that Simutrans-Extended was intended only for online play: it can be (and often is) played in single player mode, albeit players will find the fast forward feature (which is exclusively for single player mode) invaluable when playing in single player.Rather, I mean that the paradigm use case for Simutrans-Extended is an online game. This is because many of the economic features existing or planned are only fully relevant in an environment with competition, and the AI (which exists and works in Standard, but is somewhat crude even there) has not been adapted to work with Extended, so one will be playing in a lonely world if one plays offline.Of course, one can play single player imagining that one is in a place where all transport is controlled by the state, or one can play as different companies simultaneously in a single player game - but I think that the most satisfying experience is likely to be in an online multi-player game because of the great interest that the complex emergent properties of interacting with other human players and their networks bring.
Quote from: ACarlotti on May 28, 2018, 07:03:38 AMI agree that there are some things that perhaps ought to be mentioned in the faq, or otherwise made a bit more obvious. Firstly, of course, the fact that in Simutrans Extended (and, to a lesser extent, in Standard) the game works best with (at least initially) a low ratio of player interaction time to game time. This can be dealt with using fast-forward, or taking my approach of running it in the background while doing other things. In conjunction with this, it would help if the -nosound flag were better publicised, especially as at present roughly half of the memory consumption of pak128.Britain is taken up by sounds (perhaps these sounds should also be more compressed).
QuoteIt's probably worth adding to the above list that you are not expected to be able to satisfy all passenger/industry demand profitably. I think this is an issue with the player mindset - it's very easy to want to be completionist, particularly if you're playing by yourself and take the view that since noone else will supply transportation, then you have a responsibility to do so. I'm not sure how much that can be alleviated in a single player game.I think it comes down to the issue that (as I see it) playing a single-player game feels a bit like playing with a 20th century perspective where the roads and railways are funded and supported by the state (albeit with private road traffic, including most lorries and many buses). On the other hand, a multiplayer-game feels much more like how things were in the 19th Century (or earlier), where railways were privately built and run with a lot of competition, and (perhaps at an earlier period?) turnpikes being privately or locally operated instead of the mostly public road netwrk we have now. (Note that all of this is spoken from a British perspective; other countires may differ.)
QuoteIn relation to industry connexions, had you considered using the wait for % load feature combined with the maximum waiting time limit? The scarcity of consumer industries is an issue that needs to be dealt with, but this is a little way down the queue at present.
Quote from: DrSuperGood on June 05, 2018, 10:04:00 AMIn retrospect I think we can all agree that the massive server game might have been a bit too massive. Its size is good for testing some things, but generally for playing and testing it is a bit inconvenient, inaccessible and even hard to debug. Many cities on the map still have never been touched by transport companies. Even turning on underground mode or changing underground slice takes >10 seconds. The server tick rate has had to be slowed down at least twice already due to some players being unable to keep up with it.For future test games I recommend maps 1/2 or 1/4 of the size. Still plenty of room but a fraction of the resources needed to run it.
Quote from: killwater on June 06, 2018, 08:02:16 PMWould multitile buildings help then?
Quote from: jamespetts on June 08, 2018, 07:59:55 AMSarrus - more difficulty settings (beyond different amounts of starting money by era which has now been implemented) would take quite a lot of work, and there is a very long queue of very substantial tasks of higher priority at present.
Quote from: prissi on June 12, 2018, 06:10:46 AMA multitle building is internally handled by the city as the same amount of single buildings unless experimental introduced something other than the patch. I am surprised that buildings can take time up at all. At least in Standard, the CPU is almost independent, apart from the step which iterates over the city to generate passengers. But that rather scales with city size.