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Offline colonyan

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cur building with spices
« on: April 01, 2009, 02:30:50 PM »
   We have special building(aka tourist attraction with 17% share of destination).
   Some of them are built as churches or stadiums.

   From experience, only size determine how fast they grow. (growth/time unit)

   Given same size of town and they all served same service quality, they all grow at same speed.

   Only element to differentiate city variation is chance factor of appearance of special city building.

   How about if...
   depending on what is built, as population increase, how city grows?
   If city has chance to get university, the city will have faster growth?
   If city got hospital, how about city grows even with little service?
   
   Player to find out game element
   We have two town hall graphics(in pak64).
   How about brown one grows slower?
   How about city with cathedral restricted high level city building?(high rise)

   Happy to hear your thoughts.
 
  EDIT: Softer expression :)


« Last Edit: April 01, 2009, 02:56:20 PM by colonyan »

Offline VS

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Re: cur building with spices
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2009, 09:38:40 PM »
I am definitely not the one to say "yes" or "no"... but this is how I guess it stands:



When all these things work together, you get very complicated equations and constraints for pretty much anything that could happen with a city.

Some of the things you propose are not even easily possible. For example, there is nothing like house height. Sure, there is level, but these two are only loosely correlated. The best you can get is how many images the house has vertically, but 1 image = N stories and you do not know how much of them are used.

There is one tendency in Simutrans: make things general. Thus it makes no sense to create special properties and functions reserved solely for a single building type. Unfortunately it seems that what you suggest is exactly that.

Anyway, let's explore a bit your proposal, if generalized. This means not only <insert house name> does allow <insert ability>, but any building can do it if it is set to do so. Plus, the value is adjustable too. So, what happens when more buildings change the same parameter? Some kind of war for setting the number for their city? ;) It seems rather hard to get it right...

Last but not least: wrong "department". Houses have only secondary role in Simutrans which is about transport - unlike in Simcity, which was focused on building a city. Personally I would not mind such dependencies as long as player does not have to care for cities and build hospitals and other things for them. Only, if it stays a hidden mechanism manipulating city growth, it does bring much to the game. Or am I wrong?

Offline colonyan

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Re: cur building with spices
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2009, 12:08:11 AM »
Excuse in before hand: oops my first post is pretty messed. Sorry.
Let me explain whole things again with some reasoning this time.

Once game starts, player(assuming not touching public player mode aka map edit tool
(I guess it should renamed to map edit toolunless we do something about its budget))
have to adapt to

[initial map environment]
-geographical elements (height, water, river, forest, ground objects)
-city placement/distribution/size
-industry chain placement/distribution (if it exists)

to either make profit or grow cities depending on what players desire.

Depending on above elements, you decide how your network should be formed in what order.
Thus, I believe that there is fun element in how well you adapt in map environment.
Given that, how about if we added new element which player have to follow the situation?

This new situation is where how fast cities grows depending on what special city buildings
(ex. churches, gymnasium, party house etc ) the city decide to built depending on built chance of
each building type.

 
             [few expamples]
             - grain sylo: pop at 200. chance, 50% growth factor -25%
                                 each 200 growth gives 25% chance for this building to be obsoleted.
                                 Once obsoleted, city grows at normal rate.
             
             - university: pop at 6,000. chance,33% Growth factor +25%
             - stock exchange: pop at 15,000. cahance,18% Growth factor +25%
             - if both were present, +50%

Technical wise, city can check existance of these buildings and apply modifier to final growth count.

Quote
So, what happens when more buildings change the same parameter? Some kind of war for setting the number for their city?
      -You are right. This should be avoided with limiting the modifier to only few kinds.

Quote
Simutrans which is about transport - unlike in Simcity, which was focused on building a city.
      -At this stage, this game have gave too much player influence on how cities grow.
       There is, some element of simcity without being good or bad. You build road grid, building tend to follow these grid.

Quote
There is one tendency in Simutrans: make things general.
      -Keeping game straight forward is right.  But word "general" here means cities growth factor is 100% at the sake of player.
       (I know that city grows at different speed depending on its size. But final factor is players service quality on that city)
       If this is not city simulation, player shouldn't have that much control. Transportation is not the only factor of city's growth.
       Player is only tranportation organizetion's leader. He/She have to follow what mayors and citizen's choice.
       Or in othre word, how about new game behaviour which player have to plan ahead depending on what buildings cities have?
       
       New elements give players more play variety. It does not matter if new player don't recognize.  Cities will still grow.
       If they are annoyed by its behaviour, one can make research on game by using query tool.
 
 




knightly

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Re: cur building with spices
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2009, 04:38:39 AM »

@ colonyan

The problem is, the infrastructure kind of buildings like schools, universities, fire stations, police stations, tennis courts, theatres etc. are in essence tourist attractions (curiosities) and in this sense they are not really city buildings in the game. Hence you will see funny messages like "To attract more tourists, Town X built a High School with the aid of Y tax payers." :D

The only city buildings are those residential, commercial and industrial buildings as stated in cityrules.tab . Besides, the presence or absence of certain "infrastructure building" is pakset dependent -- that is, it is up to the pakset authors to create and include such buildings as tourist attractions/curiosities. Though I think it might be desirable to add a 4th type of city building (on top of res, com and ind) by incorporating these infrastructure buildings into the city rules and taking them out of the tourist attraction list. In this way, infrastructure buildings would have a more regular presence to reflect growth of the city.

Offline The Hood

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Re: cur building with spices
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2009, 08:17:58 AM »
It would be nice to have a 4th type of city building / different type of curiosity building for infrastructure, as Knightly suggests, which would mean that the very large cities can get more than one primary school (for example)!  Would it be possible to have it a bit like the current "attraction" system, but for the designated "infrastructure" buildings, have a value in the dat file that means that for every x population a new one of these buildings must get built:

e.g. Build a primary school when the population is 1,000; Build another primary school every time the population goes up by another 1,000.

Offline colonyan

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Re: cur building with spices
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2009, 12:39:49 PM »

     @Knightly&Hood
     -4th type will be good.
     For now I'm taking the situation where we make more deep use of in city tourist attraction buildings.
   
     -And yes do this or not is at the hand of pak maintainer.

     I don't think of adding too many building type such as elementary, fire, police station.
     Only few other buildings deeply related to economy is enough.
     I don't think of representing all basic city infra.
     >university, stock exchange, head quarter of major corporate, local agriculture association building
       and such are enough.

     -We can assign them small value to attract fewer people.

    @Knightly
       -That message can be easily modified I think, like in one of text config.

Offline The Hood

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Re: cur building with spices
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2009, 12:43:58 PM »
     @Knightly&Hood
     -4th type will be good.
     For now I'm taking the situation where we make more deep use of in city tourist attraction buildings.
  
     -And yes do this or not is at the hand of pak maintainer.

I think it would also need a change in the code too?

Offline colonyan

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Re: cur building with spices
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2009, 01:05:25 PM »
I think it would also need a change in the code too?

I thought that reusing existing building type(in city tourist attraction) requires less
coding work.

If it is not and take as much, 4th building type would be fun.
I can only propose, I can't code. Less burden for coders are good.