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Author Topic: Feature request: carload  (Read 640 times)

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Offline Ranran jp

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Feature request: carload
« on: March 13, 2019, 01:03:48 PM »
Hi, forum. (´・ω・`)

In some case, I think it's strange that different goods are loaded on the same freight car.
For example, coal and woodchip on the same open wagon, or fuel oil and chemicals in the same tanker. It's quite weird.  :-|
However, fish and meat in the same reefer, or books and flour in the same boxcar, these are OK.

So what I mean is that certain wagons can not mix and load the same car. That is carload.

On the other hand, a large vehicle, such as a ship or plane, can mix a number of goods.
Therefore I think that it is better to set the parameter for each vehicle. For example, set this parameter to open wagon for bulk.
Create parameters like mixed_load_prohibition in dat of vehicle.
And the wagon with this attribute can only carry cargo to the same destination.

Also this will prevent the open wagon load image from making a contradiction.

EDIT: Trucks and lorries will also fall under this prohibition.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 01:20:32 PM by Ranran »

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Feature request: carload
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2019, 02:36:57 PM »
This is an interesting idea. I cannot immediately see any problems with it, although I should be grateful for feedback from others in case there might be any difficulty that I have missed.

I am not likely to have time to code this feature myself any time soon, but this does seem in principle worthwhile, and is not likely to require too onerous an update to paksets, either.

Offline ACarlotti

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Re: Feature request: carload
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2019, 05:27:43 PM »
And the wagon with this attribute can only carry cargo to the same destination.
I think this is too restrictive - it should be possible to pick up (say) a full load of oil from one location, and then deliver half of it to one customer and half to another.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Feature request: carload
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2019, 06:53:07 PM »
I think this is too restrictive - it should be possible to pick up (say) a full load of oil from one location, and then deliver half of it to one customer and half to another.

I can see the logic in that point.

Ranran - was there a particular reason for the restriction to which A. Carlotti refers?

Offline Ves

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Re: Feature request: carload
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2019, 08:33:31 PM »
This sounds really great! One thing to consider James is to already here prepare loading mechanism for when vehicle reconfiguration is implemented. The original proposal would in this case be brilliant so you don't load good to different destinations onto the same car.

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Offline Ranran jp

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Re: Feature request: carload
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2019, 10:26:39 PM »
Thank you for your thoughts.

was there a particular reason for the restriction to which A. Carlotti refers?
It is based on the carload transport system. The shipper will request that the freight be transported by freight car. Occupy one freight car so that the passengers occupy the seat.
And I think it can be used for shunting in yard in future re-combination system.


For example, current systems may load in this way.
wagon #110t of coal to A
wagon #25t coal to A, 5t coal to B
wagon #310t of coal to B

This is not realistic and will cause problems with the re-combination system. One freight car can not be divided in half.

it should be possible to pick up (say) a full load of oil from one location, and then deliver half of it to one customer and half to another.
Certainly I did not think about this. This indicates that the transportation method differs depending on the form of the vehicle.
Some railway wagons are made to unload all cargo at the destination. For example, coal hopper wagon loads coal from the upper side and drops all coal from the bottom.
On the other hand, as A.Carlotti says, tank lorry that transport gasoline may go around several gas stations and unload little by little.
I do not know how the railway tanker unloads but I suppose that all the contents will be transported to the same destination because it is necessary to move to a special facility.


From the above, I think it would be better to divide the configuration into two stages.
mixed_load_prohibition=0default. It can mix multiple goods
mixed_load_prohibition=1It can only load the same goods
mixed_load_prohibition=2It can only load the same goods and the same destination

Note that the destination is the destination of the vehicle.

EDIT: Supplemental addition to mixed_load_prohibition=0
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 11:21:26 PM by Ranran »

Offline Ves

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Re: Feature request: carload
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2019, 10:35:23 PM »
I believe that the case you are describing Ranran is a very specific edge case that might be too narrow. Think of it, yes it unloads at the bottom, but you could theoretichally stop the unloading of the car before it is empty. Similar, I cant think of any case where it really wouldnt be possible to stop the unloading process.

Instead, I believe the principle with only loading cargo to the same destination should be purely decided by the loading logic in game wether the same vehicle is visiting multiple factories or not.

Offline ACarlotti

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Re: Feature request: carload
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2019, 10:46:22 PM »
For example, current systems may load in this way.
wagon #1   10t of coal to A
wagon #2   5t coal to A, 5t coal to B
wagon #3   10t of coal to B

This is not realistic and will cause problems with the re-combination system. One freight car can not be divided in half.

In a thread on convoy recombination I suggested that there should be a player-settable flag to specify that vehicles should only be loaded with goods to a single destination (or some similar sort of restriction). If the player doesn't set the flag, then the result would be that some of the goods would have to be unloaded when the train divides (as would happen in many other similar circumstances). It should be up to the player whether they wish to allow or prevent this.

Offline DrSuperGood

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Re: Feature request: carload
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2019, 11:02:51 PM »
While at it, having generic holds which can hold many cargo types would be useful for ships. Currently one ends up with something stupid like...

5t/500t food to X
5t/500t coal to Y

This uses 2 holds with minimal utilization when just 1 hold would suffice and be more realistic. This is especially important for mostly passenger ferries where that extra hold eats up their passenger capacity.

In real life such low quantities of coal would be loaded in sacks and the food in barrels for shipping and so could be placed side by side in a single hold, leaving the rest of the ship to be allocated for other purposes.

Offline Ranran jp

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Re: Feature request: carload
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2019, 11:09:37 PM »
In a thread on convoy recombination I suggested that there should be a player-settable flag to specify that vehicles should only be loaded with goods to a single destination (or some similar sort of restriction). If the player doesn't set the flag, then the result would be that some of the goods would have to be unloaded when the train divides (as would happen in many other similar circumstances). It should be up to the player whether they wish to allow or prevent this.
It only seems to require extra effort from the player.
For example, is there a case where the vehicle shown in the video above really do transshipment coal on the way?
It is not realistic because it is so troublesome.

EDIT: And it is difficult to close the lid which opened once by the weight by the type which drops a heavy load like this.

EDIT2:
I apologize for the lack of explanation.
I don't think it conflicts with your suggested features. Players only get the opportunity to skip the procedure, same as the real world is.
Because the hopper wagon does not assume transshipment on the way, the trouble is omitted.
And this seems to be consistent with the specification of simutrans extended which simulates the trend of the times.
Please note the difference between open wagon and hopper wagon. But I do not think that railway open wagon was often used to transfer coal to another railway open wagon along the way.

And the root of the idea is not to carry cargo but to carry freight cars. That is "carload".
Railway freights other than mixed cargo often fall under this concept.
However, it is a pseudo thing because it does not simulate fares and return etc.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 09:09:24 AM by Ranran »

Offline Ranran jp

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Re: Feature request: carload
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2019, 11:16:45 PM »
Please note that I do not say that all vehicles need restrictions. The first post says to exclude ships and planes. (For multiple containers)
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 11:36:14 PM by Ranran »