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Offline 1993matias

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Cities don't grow
« on: March 31, 2019, 03:00:51 PM »
I have a map with Simutrans-Ext and PakBritain.128. None of the cities grow, city limits don't change and population doesn't seem to change (see attached image) The growth shown is mainly me hand-placing buildings. I've tried to change some options, including the fast city growth option, but that doesn't seem to help. Cities remain static. What to do?

I have plenty of passenger transport set up, I don't want to move goods - although I tried providing electricity to some cities to no avail.

Thanks
« Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 08:45:59 PM by 1993matias »

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: [Bug?] Cities don't grow
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2019, 03:05:12 PM »
Cities are intended to grow realistically slowly, so you may not see much growth immediately. The graph does show growth - if you have been hand placing buildings every year, you would not have any way of knowing what the growth rate would have been had you not done that, so this is not a controlled test. Cities do grow in the online multiplayer games (albeit slowly, as intended), so this does not appear to be a bug.

Offline 1993matias

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Re: [Bug?] Cities don't grow
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2019, 08:45:41 PM »
Thank you for clarifying. What should I do to make cities grow faster? I have tried the using public player tool to grow the cities, but that doesn't seem to work...?
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 08:31:17 AM by 1993matias »

Offline Spenk009

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Re: Cities don't grow
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2019, 08:19:32 AM »
When using the public player's growth tool, what at size city are you trying to grow? And how many residential buildings are in the city? I've noticed a refusal to grow player built towns, if they don't feature a residential building (built by the town's natural growth). But this was a while back and I haven't encountered this bug since the last town growth improvement.

Offline 1993matias

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Re: Cities don't grow
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2019, 08:31:22 AM »
Some cities seem to grow while others don't. See the attached savefile and try to grow St. Lawrence Budpike. For me that doesn't work, but for example Perminster or Sparrowdean can grow manually. Any particular reason?
Savefile from Google Drive

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Cities don't grow
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2019, 10:42:19 AM »
Some cities seem to grow while others don't. See the attached savefile and try to grow St. Lawrence Budpike. For me that doesn't work, but for example Perminster or Sparrowdean can grow manually. Any particular reason?
Savefile from Google Drive

City growth is connected to how much of the local transport demand is fulfilled. Cities where a higher proportion of people and goods are transported will grow more quickly than those in which a lower proportion of people and goods are transported.

Offline 1993matias

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Re: Cities don't grow
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2019, 04:43:56 PM »
My problem is that I can't get the cities to grow even with the public player's tools... Some grow, others don't

Offline Spenk009

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Re: Cities don't grow
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2019, 05:02:44 PM »
You are entirely correct. I am encountering the same issue, so this can be replicated. Some towns exhibit growth by Public Player tool (slower than normal), others don't react to the tool in any way. Your savegame is at version 120.4, which is a Standard savegame version rather than Extended. If I try to change the version number into the Extended format, I get the same error as I posted about last week. I'm sorry to say that I can't assist much further. If anyone has the time and interest, they may look into tackling this issue but I think due to the savegame format being wrong it may be ruled out as version errors.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Cities don't grow
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2019, 05:32:56 PM »
Do I understand, then, that the problem is not organic growth, but that the grow cities tool does not work?

Offline Ranran jp

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Re: Cities don't grow
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2019, 09:52:15 PM »
I at least know that this kind of bug already existed last summer.
Please manually place a new city in  1993matias's saved data. Then strange city is created.
Next, use "grow city" tool for that city. Perhaps that won't work.

What I often see is a condition where no city buildings are created when manual placement is done.
Only road segments are created.
That city does not build any city buildings no matter how many population growth tools are used, but only attraction buildings are created.
However, this seems to behave somewhat differently from the 1993matias's bug.
In this map, the "grow city" tool does not extend the road but the city buildings are slightly built.

Offline 1993matias

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Re: Cities don't grow
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2019, 05:42:45 AM »
Yes, the issue is that manual city growth doesn't happen in some cities using the 'Grow City' tool.

Why the game is in 120.4 save format I don't know. This save has only be touched by Simutrans-Extended.

Offline ACarlotti

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Re: Cities don't grow
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2019, 06:11:51 AM »
Why the game is in 120.4 save format I don't know. This save has only be touched by Simutrans-Extended.

I just downloaded the file and put in my Simutrans saves folder. The load dialogue in Simutrans Extended then reports the version as "v 120.4 e 14" - i.e.  it has the version for Standard features is 120.4, and on top of that it has Extended features up to version 14. This is the same as saves I have made recently myself.

If it were saved using (latest) Standard Simutrans then the save version would be reported as "v 120.7  " - i.e. version 120.7 of Standard with no Extended features included.

Your savegame is at version 120.4, which is a Standard savegame version rather than Extended.
This is not true; I think you are misunderstanding something about the versioning.

Offline Spenk009

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Re: Cities don't grow
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2019, 12:19:34 PM »

This is not true; I think you are misunderstanding something about the versioning.

I think you're right. I'm sorry if I've hindered diagnosis with this misinformation.

Offline 1993matias

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Re: Cities don't grow
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2019, 11:40:13 AM »
I have noticed that city limits do not extend when growing a city. They used to be extended also when manually placing buildings (at least in Simutrans standard), but not in this savegame. Maybe that's the problem?

EDIT: After having played for a bit it seems like cities grow fast again. Two things changed since last time: A game restart and congestion_density_factor (I made the number higher, I have no idea what it does...)
« Last Edit: April 06, 2019, 02:40:11 PM by 1993matias »

Offline Phystam jp

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Re: Cities don't grow
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2019, 06:17:47 PM »
I also found the problem in pak256-Ex. When you put a city on your map, the city do not have any city buildings except for the town hall. It is same when you try to increase the city population.
In my exploration, I found that the failure comes from the code below in simcity.cc:

Where
Code: [Select]
worker_shortage:= bool ( world_jobs > 1.1*monthly_job_demand_global )
job_shortage:= bool ( monthly_job_demand_global > 1.1*world_jobs )
In this section, it selects a suitable building type, but the conditions are not enough. Because the condition of "worker_shortage&&job_shortage" can be occurred when "world_jobs" and "monthly_job_demand_global" are unbalanced.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Cities don't grow
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2019, 10:45:09 PM »
Thank you - that is helpful. This will be looked at more comprehensively when town growth is rewritten entirely, but I have added a temporary modification so that a house can be generated even if there is a job shortage so long as there is also a worker shortage. This should help to break the deadlock that you describe.

This change will be in the next nightly build. I should be grateful if anyone could re-test to see whether this braeks the deadlock.

Offline 1993matias

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Re: Cities don't grow
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2019, 09:16:25 AM »
It seemed like the problem was solved in yesterdays build, but today's nightly presents the same growth problem. See the city Peterington, I have tried to manually grow the city to no avail and then resorted to manually place the buildings. Notice how the city limit doesn't extend to the new buildings but remains static.
EDIT: Growing Pelminster in the save works - or so it seems. No matter how much you click, the populations decreases, no tall buildings get built. The city limits remain static too.
EDIT2: After closing and opening the game the city limits seem to have been moved accordingly. Don't the city limits adjust immediately to hand-placed buildings?

Savegame here

Nightly version 14.5 #93490b5
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 12:55:37 PM by 1993matias »