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Author Topic: Time scale  (Read 2404 times)

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Offline Freahk

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Time scale
« on: October 11, 2019, 10:48:00 PM »
Hey there,
I don't know if it is realistic in the UK, but to me time scale feels unrealistic.
I would expect hourly scheduled lines to be the most common, sometimes overlapping to other hourly lines or serving the same line half-hourly.

However, on my map, I don't have any hourly lines and half hourly or even 20 minutely lines feel much more like it could serve the required service.

That given, I'd like to discuss about increasing the month length to 12 or 18.
A month length of 24 would also be an interessting choce because of the "one month is a whole day" relation, but I suspect that scaling would also feel unrealistic.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: Time scale
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2019, 10:52:39 PM »
Thank you for your feedback. I am not sure that I fully understand what you mean by the scale feeling unrealistic: what would it mean for the scale to feel realistic in your view? Is this about the time scale, or is this more about the rates of passenger generation?

Offline Freahk

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Re: Time scale
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2019, 11:06:51 PM »
The passenger generation/time scale feels unrealistic.
As this is a relative measure, I can't tell from that point if passenger generation or time scale feels unrealistic. It's either of them, or maybe even both a little bit.

However, decreasing passneger generation will have a huge effect on balancing whereas changing the time scale doesn't have any effect on balancing at all, so I suggested to change the time scale.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: Time scale
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2019, 11:14:18 PM »
The passenger generation/time scale feels unrealistic.
As this is a relative measure, I can't tell from that point if passenger generation or time scale feels unrealistic. It's either of them, or maybe even both a little bit.

However, decreasing passneger generation will have a huge effect on balancing whereas changing the time scale doesn't have any effect on balancing at all, so I suggested to change the time scale.

I am not sure that I really understand - the passenger generation has been calibrated quite precisely based on real data. What is not balanced as yet is the town growth, so the towns themselves may well not have realistic densities and therefore may well not generate realistic amounts of passengers.

What I am struggling to understand is how you think that changing the bits per month would make the time scale feel any more realistic. I do not understand this because I do not know what it means for the timescale to feel realistic to you. Note that changing the month length will only change the relationship between the short timescale and long timescale. Passenger generation is done entirely in the short timescale, so it will make no difference at all to the passenger demand per in-game hour.

Offline Freahk

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Re: Time scale
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2019, 11:22:38 PM »
Ah I see the missunderstanding.
I don't want to change bits_per_month, which is the internal time scale, but I want to scale the displayed time.

A schedule that has 12 departures per month, which serves transport requirements best in most situations, should be an hourly service. Currently it is a half hourly service.

That means we should change the displayed time of a whole month from 6 hours to 12 hours.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: Time scale
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2019, 07:10:55 AM »
So you believe that there are too many passengers?

Offline Freahk

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Re: Time scale
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2019, 08:50:39 AM »
I believe there are too many passengers per hour, as it seems to me that one needs at least a half-hourly service to serve transportation demand.
I would instead expect hourly services, or even two hourly service on some long distance lines to serve the demand.

There are apart from passenger generation itself some other parameters that could cause this.
 - Percentage of people using public transportation
 - Town Sizes
 - Hours of a month, assuming you calibrated passenger generation on monthly data

About town sizes, what size would you expect in 1950 for a large city?
About usage percentages, what would you expect the Traffic/Transported/Passengers/Walked ratios to be from real world data?
« Last Edit: October 12, 2019, 10:19:09 AM by Freahk »

Offline Octavius

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Re: Time scale
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2019, 07:44:35 PM »
(I've been away from Simutrans for a while, but intend to return. I've been reading the forum for some months.)

I don't know about Germany or the UK, but around here (Netherlands) 30 minute services have been the standard for decades, and most lines are served by multiple services. The line closest to my home (in the less crowded east of the country) has 1 intercity plus 2 local trains every half hour, but 2 intercities plus 1 local seems more common and 3 intercities plus 2 locals every half hour isn't really exceptional. One fast and one slow train every hour may have been more common in the 1970s though.

Maybe the UK is more similar to the Netherlands than to Germany in that respect. Germans are known for loving private cars.

Offline Jando

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Re: Time scale
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2019, 10:13:02 PM »
I also believe there are too many passengers but I don't think it's because of the time scale. I think it's because of the ratio of population to passengers. Here's a screenshot of a town I founded last year. Good way to spend the cash that is piling up. :)



This little village now has a population of 192 and a bus stop that gets a bus to the two neighbouring towns every 16 minutes. The statistics for the bus stop are there too: up to 190 passengers per day travelled from that bus stop, meaning about every single soul in that little village took the bus to a neighbouring town once per day and a few more wanted to travel but refused the slow bus transport. Thus some of the 192 inhabitants even tried to travel twice per day.

We also have to consider that each travel is a two-way journey thus that little bus stop sees a pretty good activity for these 192 inhabitants, about every single inhabitant leaves the village and returns to it at least once per day.

Offline Spenk009

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Re: Time scale
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2019, 12:39:02 PM »
meaning about every single soul in that little village took the bus to a neighbouring town once per day
Could you list the amount of industrial and commercial buildings? Some travels are visits, some are commutes and some shoppings. A decent set of the trips can be only visiting, with the rest being workers and shoppers finding places elsewhere they need to go. Most people leave their house once a day, would you disagree?

Offline Jando

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Re: Time scale
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2019, 10:39:09 PM »
Could you list the amount of industrial and commercial buildings? Some travels are visits, some are commutes and some shoppings. A decent set of the trips can be only visiting, with the rest being workers and shoppers finding places elsewhere they need to go. Most people leave their house once a day, would you disagree?

Tracked the departures from that stop for a while. Stopped after I saw 53 commuters and 135 visitors. That's a relatively high amount of commuters, usually visitors are more than 90% of the traffic I see on that map. Don't know about shopping visits, never seen one, I think they count as visitors. 

No commercial buildings in that little village, 10 residential buildings, the city hall and the parish church.

Offline Emil P.

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Re: Time scale
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2019, 09:05:57 PM »
I’m easily getting 2000+ passengers per day (month) from a 22,000 city in 1838. This definitely sounds excessive.