[patch] new cursor movement

[Dwachs]

with this patch it is possible to select any ground on the map (bridges etc..)

the patch contains only the changed cursor movement, I did not touch any tools yet. So expect weird result when clicking around.

[gerw]

Very nice patch!

It is intended, that, while pointing on a bridge, both kartenboden and bridge are highlighted?

I'm looking forward to use full 3d coordinates in the tools.

[Dwachs]

Very nice patch!

It is intended, that, while pointing on a bridge, both kartenboden and bridge are highlighted?

thank you

Yes this is intended to give a hint about the height of the cursor. In fact, all levels between cursor and ground are highlighted. But on the not-marked tiles only the front part of the cursor ist shown.

Any other ideas how to indicate the 3rd coordinate visually are welcome! The method used in the old isometric game "xcom ufo defense" is my personal favourite

[gerw]

Any other ideas how to indicate the 3rd coordinate visually are welcome! The method used in the old isometric game "xcom ufo defense" is my personal favourite

I think it is a good idea. Therefore we need a new cursor, where the front vertical edge is highlighted.

For those, who don't know XCom: http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/images/kotaku/2008/09/xcom_ufo_defense.jpg

[z9999]

Interesting.
Doesn't cursor move to on the sea yet ?

[prissi]

I though of drawing the ground with blue (yellow?) transparent color.

[Dwachs]

I though of drawing the ground with blue (yellow?) transparent color.

could you provide more details? which ground should be transparent? the marked one? all above? all below?

[prissi]

I mean draw a colorful overlay (orange like the marker) with the ground graphics, just like the reserved ways or stop areas on the tile the cursour actually is on.

[Dwachs]

Doesn't cursor move to on the sea yet ?

The termination criterion of one loop was false, I will update the patch this week.

[Dwachs]

New patch file. Now all tools should work (but unexpected behaviour can be expected at some points).

Please test!

[z9999]

Some impressions

- Underground mode: Can't move to empty tile. So, can't build new road/track.
- Underground mode: Too many markers with stop building tool and hard to look.
- Upgrading road/track and downgrading road/track don't use 3d coordinate.

[sojo]

This is a little bit confusing. Can it drawn in difficult colors?

F.e. From (top to bottom) red to green. So you have on top a dark red and you go to a dark green over orange or yellow. But I'm not sure if this is possible.

[prissi]

Differen colors is not possible. And 3D coordinates are not yet used, this is just preview for the changes to come to simwerkz.cc needed.

[Dwachs]

Some impressions
- Underground mode: Can't move to empty tile. So, can't build new road/track.
- Upgrading road/track and downgrading road/track don't use 3d coordinate.

This should be solved now.

- Underground mode: Too many markers with stop building tool and hard to look.

I changed the 'helper' marker to the grid graphics, which yield a more moderate look. Is it better?

This is a little bit confusing. Can it drawn in difficult colors?

I used the marker and border graphics as defined in each pakset. At a later stage one can change this.

And 3D coordinates are not yet used, this is just preview for the changes to come to simwerkz.cc needed.

The patch file contains all necessary changes, everything should be working with 3d-coordinates

I will ask wernieman to cross-compile the patch.

[wernieman]

See http://patches.simutrans-germany.com/

[knightly]

First of all, thanks a lot for your great work, Dwachs.

I tried the SDL/Mingw version compiled by Wernieman, and it seems that the cursor does not highlight the bridge surface at the slope end of the bridge. Is it the intended behaviour?

[Dwachs]

@wernieman: Thank you very matsch!

@Knightly: At least this behaviour is known. It is not easy to fix. I will try to do so this evening.

[z9999]

- Underground mode: Too many markers with stop building tool and hard to look.

It looks better, thank you.

- Underground mode: Can't move to empty tile. So, can't build new road/track.

It works, thank you. Is it difficult to mark the same height tile ?
Currently, starting cursor popsition is on the road, but ending cursor position is on the ground. This is a little difficult to recognize.

[z9999]

- Upgrading road/track and downgrading road/track don't use 3d coordinate.

I think this still not work correctly. Can you upgrad/downgrade topmost ways ?
And also, elevated monorail could be ugpgrated to normal monorail graphics, this should not happen.

[knightly]

Regarding image ug03.png posted by z9999 above :

Would it be better if, on the ground surface, the squares above the road will also be highlighted? Those squares also fall within the coverage area of the stop.

[Dwachs]

Is it difficult to mark the same height tile ?
Currently, starting cursor popsition is on the road, but ending cursor position is on the ground. This is a little difficult to recognize.

yes, it is difficult. If the underground tile that should be marked is empty, there is nothing to put the cursor on.

I try to fix up- and downgrading today evening.

Regarding image ug03.png posted by z9999 above :

Would it be better if, on the ground surface, the squares above the road will also be highlighted? Those squares also fall within the coverage area of the stop.

The problem here is, that simutrans uses the same method to mark the ground where the cursor is and create the preview of the catchment area. Your proposal means that more tiles are marked, which is IMHO not a good idea. See the screenshots of z9999 above.

These difficulties in the underground view were the main motivation for me to develop the new underground view ...

[Dwachs]

I think this still not work correctly. Can you upgrad/downgrade topmost ways ?

Here is a new patch file, which fixes your observations. Thank you for testing!

I included also the possibility to build elevated ways on top of elevated ways without cheating Dont know whether prissi likes that or not

[wernieman]

New Compiler run with the new-patch

See: http://patches.simutrans-germany.com/

But I delete there the old one (3433)

[Dwachs]

Thank you!

[z9999]

I included also the possibility to build elevated ways on top of elevated ways without cheating

Thank you. It's great, and I understand now why upgrading/downgrading topmost way didn't work.

Dont know whether prissi likes that or not

Maybe... not ?  :'(

So, this cursor feature will come with height-cut mode ?
If not, there is no way to select ground tiles under bridges.

[Dwachs]

After integration of this cursor patch, the new underground mode will come in trunk too. We decided to first complete this patch here, the new underground mode can use all the reworked tools.

So, this cursor feature will come with height-cut mode ?
If not, there is no way to select ground tiles under bridges.

I can add support of the ctrl-key: that means ctrl+click selects the ground. What do you think? The ctrl-key is not used anymore with the cursor-patch.

[wernieman]

Will there be a new patch-Version this weekend or did you work for the trunk?

When you will make a new patch-version, then I must plan a new compilerrun ... so there will be enough tests befor you programm for the trunk.

[z9999]

I can add support of the ctrl-key: that means ctrl+click selects the ground. What do you think? The ctrl-key is not used anymore with the cursor-patch.

Well, I'm not sure which way is good, but easy way to access to behind tiles or objects would be needed for any construction tools, I think.

[prissi]

Maybe CNTRL should glue the cursor to the ground in the mouse movement routine ... that was also my suggestion when I first discussed with Daniel about this. But then of course there will be the slice mode in future.

[Dwachs]

new patch.

ctrl-key now selects ground. But you have to move the mouse after pressing/releasing the ctrl-key to toggle the right beaviour. I.e. simply pressing ctrl-key does not move the pointer.

[prissi]

Why does some tools use get_grund? Especially the schedule tool should it fall back?

[z9999]

I tested the lastest version, but this version doesn't work well.

It always points ground tiles without CTRL key.
Only the magnifier icon moves up and down, but orange cursor doesn't move and always points ground tiles.

[edit]
If there are 3 height on one tile, I can select low and middle but can't select topmost height.
If there are only 2 height on one tile, I can select ground  but can't select upper height.

[Dwachs]

Thanks for reporting. I will look into it this weekend.

[wernieman]

I make a spezial run (see http://patches.simutrans-germany.com/)

Sorry that today and not yesterday, but yesterday my Girdfriend (and wife) think, that is more importan to play with the Laptop then to make the upload ... ;o)

[Isaac Eiland-Hall]

yesterday my Girdfriend (and wife) think

Well, as long as you can get the both of them to agree, I think that's what's most important.

[Dwachs]

new patch, selection of all tiles works correctly again.

@z9999: thanks for testing!

@wernieman: could you please make a new spezial build?

[wernieman]

See http://patches.simutrans-germany.com/

[jamespetts]

Very nice! Much easier to use than the standard cursor.

[z9999]

Thank you. It's working well.
A little thing. CTRL operation is not needed in underground mode, is is ?
CTRL is used in 2 cases, building straight road/rail and downgrading road/rail.
If we build a new road/rail in underground mode, ending position is always surface, thus this is not a problem.
But if we want to build a new road/rail from existing road/rail to existing road/rail with CTRL key in underground mode, it might be confused a little, I think.

[prissi]

If not changed, all building in underground is anyway straight connection only.

[Dwachs]

@z9999: you are right with your concerns. Using ctrl-key to select ground AND to build straight is interfering.

What solutions would you (all) prefer?

[jamespetts]

CTRL+SHIFT?

[z9999]

If not changed, all building in underground is anyway straight connection only.

Ahh, yes. I was wrong, I didn't read the code, sorry.

Code Select Expand


if(event_get_last_control_shift()==2  ||  grund_t::underground_mode) {


But, CRTL is still interfering in downgrading road/rail.
Is there any reason not to use SHIFT key ?
SHIFT key was to select topmost and this isn't used anymore.

[Dwachs]

CTRL-key was used to select the topmost way

SHIFT-key seems to be used only in connection with the minimap.

Shall I change the patch to use SHIFT-key to select ground?

[z9999]

Shall I change the patch to use SHIFT-key to select ground?

It is up to prissi.

I changed to following code and seems to be working well.

Code Select Expand


bool select_karten_boden = event_get_last_control_shift() & 1;

But I think other tools also need to change to '& 2' instead of '== 2'.

[prissi]

I am not keen on using an other code, since this functionality for Kartenboden will be possible with the slice mode anyway. Those hidden features make life difficult for most of the peoples. Rather get away from CNTRL at all in the end.

[Spike]

From designers point of view, ctrl and shift are bad ideas, since they are not apparent to new player. Only way to know about these features is by reading the documentation, a thing only few players do.

Simutrans did not have such obscurities originally.

I would ask to rethink the solution, and find a UI that is more accessible to players. I know ctrl and shift sneaked into Simutrans in other places, too, but when I got to know it was already done.

Make features accessible to players. That means either show them their choices, or give clues how to get to other choices.

[z9999]

Then, please remove selecting ground with CTRL key feature.
And also please don't implement this 3d cursor feature until slice mode will be implemented.

[Dwachs]

Patch updated according to your wishes

I hope sliced mode can follow soon.

[prissi]

My suggestion on a transparent ground tile for the top.

[Dwachs]

Nice! I would prefer TRANSPARENT25_FLAG instead of TRANSPARENT50_FLAG in simview.cc. The marked tile is highlighted too heavy imho.

[wernieman]

Should I make a Compilerrun with patch cursor-2437.patch ore new_cursor-r2437-v2.diff?

[Dwachs]

Should I make a Compilerrun with patch cursor-2437.patch ore new_cursor-r2437-v2.diff?

with prissi's new_cursor-r2437-v2.diff. Thank you !!!

[wernieman]

See http://patches.simutrans-germany.com/

[prissi]

This is just a suggestion; maybe the highlighting color should be configurable via simuconf.tab, since the cursor border have different colors in different sets.

[gerw]

In the current version (v2), the orange overlay is drawn above the tool cursor. Can this be changed?

[Dwachs]

in simview.cc  line 184 has to be moved beyond line 195

[gerw]

Ok. Then anybody should do this

[Dwachs]

Updated patch file. The tool cursor is drawn above the orange overlay.

I tested pak64, pak128, pak.german and pak.96. All use an orange marker. So there is no need to change the cursor color. Using player colors (as for station coverage) did not look nice to me.

[z9999]

You forgot pak128.japan, it is blue.
BTW, when I move cursor in underground mode, it shows the object on the ground.
Is this a known problem ?

[prissi]

THis is an error. It was actually intended for bridges ...

[wernieman]

I make a Compilerrun with the lates patch

You found it at  http://patches.simutrans-germany.com/

I named it: sim-*-curser-2437-v3.zip

[Dwachs]

@wernieman: thanks alot! maybe you can remove all older versions from the patch-server?

[wernieman]

Ups .. I forget

[Dwachs]

You forgot pak128.japan, it is blue.

It would be possible to make the overlay color configurable in pak-xyz/simuconf.tab. Preferably using the pre-defined simutrans colors as here:

http://simutrans-germany.com/wiki/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=en_FactoryDef#mapcolor

Any opinions? better suggestions?

[Dwachs]

New patch.

Now the overlay color can be configured in simuconf.tab:

Code Select Expand


# Color of cursor overlay, which is blended over marked ground tiles
# The available colors and their numbers can be found on
#    http://simutrans-germany.com/wiki/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=en_FactoryDef#mapcolor
# Suggested values (155 is the default)
# -- pak64, pak.german, pak128
cursor_overlay_color = 155
# -- pak128.japan
#cursor_overlay_color = 149


If no more bugs are found this patch will go into trunk soon.

[prissi]

I think the cursor color should go to umgebung_t, since this customisation does not affect gameplay. The idea is all gameplay settings into einstellungen (and thus those are transferred in network games) while all visual not engine settings go to umgebung_t.

[Dwachs]

thank you for clarifying

[z9999]

If no more bugs are found this patch will go into trunk soon.

And also please don't implement this 3d cursor feature until slice mode will be implemented.

[Dwachs]

And also please don't implement this 3d cursor feature until slice mode will be implemented.

After integrating the 3d-cursor thing, sliced underground mode will be the next step.

[z9999]

What I am saying is there is no way to access to ground tile. So don't do that.

[wernieman]

I make a new compilerrun with the patch ... log at http://patches.simutrans-germany.com/

[Dwachs]

@wernieman: Thank you!

@all: updated patch, only internal things (cursor-overlay-color variable from einstellungen_t to umgebung_t) changed, no noticeable changes for players, no new compile needed.

[Dwachs]

this patch is now incorporated in rev 2455 and ready for massive testing in the nightlies:)