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"unload only" for vehicles

Started by DNGR, January 26, 2020, 08:37:22 PM

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DNGR

There seem to have been some ideas like this before, so my apologies if I am repeating.
Could there be a "unload only" for destinations (as in TTD). This would prevent many of the unwanted strange routings which occur where coal is routed through ore mines and wood through sawmills. Vehicles already have an "unload only" when vehicles are being withdrawn, so perhaps much of the code already exists.
A more advanced feature would be a % loaded, which could be set to zero to achieve this, but also could be set to 50% etc for certain applications.

makie

The question is not new, the problem is old.
The simplest solution is build separated stations near the factory. The goods don't move from station to station.

prissi

It is easy to add, but also too easy to exploit.

Have a route where you load passengers and then dump them all off at the end of the map. A second train runs exactly the same route, but only loads there and unloads only at the rest of the stations.

Also you get money for transporting the extra stuff ...

DNGR

Quote from: makie on January 26, 2020, 11:09:14 PM
The question is not new, the problem is old.
The simplest solution is build separated stations near the factory. The goods don't move from station to station.

Building multiple stations creates a rather unnatural gameplay and is sometimes difficult in cities etc.

Quote from: prissi on January 27, 2020, 03:06:53 AM
It is easy to add, but also too easy to exploit.

Have a route where you load passengers and then dump them all off at the end of the map. A second train runs exactly the same route, but only loads there and unloads only at the rest of the stations.

Also you get money for transporting the extra stuff ...

This would require a financial model that rewarded long indirect routes rather than direct ones. Perhaps it does, but this is not logical either.
In the current situation do you get rewarded for forming routes via an intermediate location at the edge of the map?
I am not suggesting forced unload, I am only suggesting restricting loading.

prissi

There are three modes of payment.
pay_for_total_distance=0 pay per distance travelled (default)
pay_for_total_distance=1 pay per distance reduction to next transfer halt. This is already hard to do in networks, i.e. ring lines will drop strongly in income. But it would still allow for the above exploit
pay_for_total_distance=2 paz per distance reduction to the target. It is very hard to make money from a network, since concentration pasengers on a few mainlines involves some detours, which are not paid at all. But that avoids the above exploit.

So if there is a no loading function, it needs a switch to disable it for network games at least.

Leartin

For the record:
Technically, in the game of Simutrans, no goods station requires any capacity at all.
If no_routing_over_overcrowded is activated, only hubs (places where goods switch from one vehicle to another) require capacity. Trains can still unload at their destination (the station next to the consumer) and they can still load at their origin (provided the train is waiting)*.
Well, that's not entirely true - the game still sees zero-capacity-stations as valid hubs unless there is at least one unit of goods in them. This can be fixed by replacing a ">" in the code by ">=".

If embraced as a feature, this would mean that players can precisely decide which stations should act as hubs by placing station extensions, while regular goods platforms have zero capacity.
If not embraced (eg. by not having 0-capacity-platforms), nothing changes except platforms being overcrowded one item earlier (probably not noticable).

As a side note: Using this method, good storage could be much more expensive, to dissuade players from using it except they really want a hub. In turn, the internal storage of a producing factory becomes a meaningful factor over whether many small vehicles or a few big ones are better suited to serve that facility.

[* This might have to do with the overcrowded code, so potentially some extra code might be needed to retain that or to enhance it to completely be able to load from internal storage]