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Is it good to invade the cities occupied by other players?

Started by ASV62, March 06, 2020, 12:32:00 PM

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ASV62

I mean building your own transport network in other players city, without setting up public stops, in multiplayer setups and servers.
It seems to be so aggressive and intrusive, but in some occasions I think it's advantageous, let's say one player occupied the city with planes, and another player could extend its train network into the city, without any public stops, the residents now have planes and trains to choose from the beginning, and probably could fill the blindspots with only 1 transport method in action, and squeeze out more passengers.

People who was born with this kind of lifestyle is an artist, while talents are philosophist ....

Sirius

I would say this depends on servers policies.
In any case, I'd first try to cooperate with the player "occupying" the city to connect your networks.
If he does not agree with this i.e. he won't share stops or expand some lines to stops you share, it depends on servers policies.
Ask the server admin or other players how they would handle the situation.

ASV62

Quote from: Freahk on March 06, 2020, 01:00:07 PM
I would say this depends on servers policies.
In any case, I'd first try to cooperate with the player "occupying" the city to connect your networks.
If he does not agree with this i.e. he won't share stops or expand some lines to stops you share, it depends on servers policies.
Ask the server admin or other players how they would handle the situation.
It's most of the time ok play with some close friends that already planned to have our own territory at first, after sometime we may start overlapping things and step into others region for fun, and after negotiations, but public free for all and free to build servers is not that easy, just like 2b2t.

People who was born with this kind of lifestyle is an artist, while talents are philosophist ....

Sirius

On a public ser you can also communicate to other players. If they agree to cooperate, it is not a problem at all.
If they don't, it may or may not be ok to "invade" the city, so search the map for other shared cities. If it's quite common on the server, it's likely to be allowed. Also, ask other players or the server admin about their opinion.

Imho simutrans standard does not handle shared cities quite well anyways but that's a limitation you will have to deal with.

florentingivi1

Ask other players for cooperation to do that. Communication with others will work easy. I mean, also you should consider the policy of the server or admin.
Same with bubble shooter classic, regarding to your question "IS IT GOOD" better say, "Is it possible to invade that already occupied by". 

Vladki

While playing stephenson-siemens game, this happened several times. Although I was sometimes upset what someone invaded city that I have been serving, it was interesting experience in the end. It clearly showed that competition is good, and forced me to optimize my network. Also I could compare other play styles and how they work. Also the fact that in simutrans a stop on public road is effectively public stop, and that people walk between stops, makes it much easier. So I would not forbid competition, even within one city. On the other hand, when I have had built a railway between cities previously connected by horse carriages, I have rerouted those from inter-city to urban transport, although they belonged to some other, but unlocked, player. I didn't want him to go bankrupt, and it was good for both companies.

Sirius

Just to clarify: It never was me for sure  ;D

Quote from: Vladki on March 18, 2020, 08:25:57 PMAlso the fact that in simutrans a stop on public road is effectively public stop
Afaik, that's an extended thing but I'm not entirely sure.

I had hosted purely competetive terretorial simutrans maps for a few years, because my community prefered this.
However, I must admit that non-terretorial multiplayer is much more fun as it adds competition whilst also maintaining a high requirement for cooperation.

In the end, if the server you play one has some unwritten rules that forbid you to invade a city, any advise given here might not matter.

Vladki

Quote from: Freahk on March 18, 2020, 08:49:54 PMAlso the fact that in simutrans a stop on public road is effectively public stop

Afaik, that's an extended thing but I'm not entirely sure.

Yes it is only in extended I just forgot to write it.

jamespetts

Many of the features in Extended, such as automatically making road stops in cities or on public rights of way usable by all players, are specifically intended to facilitate a realistic level of competition between players. Ultimately, where there is an element of competition involved, and where multiple players serve various cities, games are much more interesting, fun and realistic than where game maps are divided strictly into exclusive territories.
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ASV62

The topic was just a quick vent on current experience, communicate with the players beforehand is already not applicable to my case.

What could it be a fun, perfect online gameplay is the topic I want to discuss now.

One set of policy I could think of is


       
  • "No passenger operations within other player's base cities, unless player open up public stations for interchange."
  • "Depends on the city count, players could claim at least 2 sizeable cities and operate direct services between with absolute rights"
  • "Certain cities are reserved for new players, as long as the server still have player slot available and/or server host accept new players to join"
  • "Freight could be exceptions for base cities rules, as player could play as chain based companies (e.g. Waste company), or territory based with freight exchanges."

People who was born with this kind of lifestyle is an artist, while talents are philosophist ....

Yona-TYT

Why not use script to define some rules? .
Long ago I made one that allows granting specific regions for players -> https://forum.simutrans.com/index.php/topic,17927.0.html
. I am not sure if this works well on extend though. :p

You can create something like a limited number of cities per player, or even allow a player to remove public stops if they are in his city.

Matthew

Quote from: jamespetts on March 18, 2020, 11:20:23 PM
automatically making road stops in cities or on public rights of way usable by all players

Well, TIL! I kept thinking that I had somehow messed up the access settings. Could you please edit this feature into the "Access permissions" paragraph of the Overview of Sim-Ex features?  So it only applies to road stops in cities, right? I am curious as to the thinking behind that.
(Signature being tested) If you enjoy playing Simutrans, then you might also enjoy watching Japan Railway Journal
Available in English and simplified Chinese
如果您喜欢玩Simutrans的话,那么说不定就想看《日本铁路之旅》(英语也有简体中文字幕)。

DrakenJ35

Yeah, I'd say it's acceptable to extend your transport lines into another city where another player already operates a line, as long as it isn't redundant; for example, a train station in a city that has an airport is okay, but building an airport in that same city is conflictual.

Leartin

Quote from: DrakenJ35 on April 29, 2020, 02:02:02 PM
for example, a train station in a city that has an airport is okay, but building an airport in that same city is conflictual.
The type of transportation does not really matter, it's only how often pax need to change vehicles and how often they stop. If you have two airports, extend both by a bus stop, and send a bus directly between them, bus and plane will be seen as equals for the pax.
So to flip your example around, if there already is a train station in the city, but all the trains go east, and you build a second train station connecting to the west, there is no direct conflict. But if you build an airport that connects to cities in the east via plane, that directly competes with the existing railway.
(The flip is because plane connections are always direct, while train connections often have additional stops. So it's easier to see how a plane could steal a trains traffic. But it can be the other way around as well, depending on the rest of the network)