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Author Topic: Simutrans is too hard  (Read 1711 times)

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Offline Sandbox Player

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Simutrans is too hard
« on: May 24, 2020, 02:37:32 AM »
I can't make money in Simutrans. Every time I play Simutrans, I use the freeplay mode. Simutrans looks so hard for most players. Are there any mod to make it easier? In OpenTTD, I can just follow the subsidy and soon pay off my debt and build something I like. Can someone add subsidy into Simutrans?

Offline Václav

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Re: Simutrans is too hard
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2020, 03:58:11 AM »
Begin with freight transportation. It helps you to prepare solid base for building of passengers and post lines. But beware of contracts between factories. You have to inspect from/to which factories is possible transport supplies/products. Some factories may need more than one good for production.

And also, here is not possible to have railway station and have it overcrowded with passengers and post after two or three train rides (like in OpenTTD). Here you have to build public mass transport network to get passengers and post on that station.

And of course, paksets (graphical sets) have various difficulty due to their balancing. But I don't think that Simutrans is too hard. Subsididiaries are not needed even in OpenTTD. I found that they help with town government. But nothing more.

If you really need to fill subsididiaries to earn money, then something goes wrong. And you may need to change your playing commons - even in OpenTTD.

Offline Andarix

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Re: Simutrans is too hard
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2020, 06:23:55 AM »
You can set Use beginner mode.



You can change the beginner_price_factor in simuconf.tab.

More infos see InGame-Help ( ? in titel from dialoques ) or here.

Offline makie

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Re: Simutrans is too hard
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2020, 07:26:23 AM »
What paksets (graphical sets) have you tried?

Offline Václav

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Re: Simutrans is too hard
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2020, 01:21:24 PM »
I think that Sandbox Player only bothers. Read some other his posts. They are not related to current situation in paksets, and generally in whole game.

And by the way, beginner mode is good for nothing. It is really for sandbox playing. But not for serious playing.

Offline Freahk

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Re: Simutrans is too hard
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2020, 01:27:11 PM »
Begin with freight transportation. It helps you to prepare solid base for building of passengers and post lines.
That greatly depends on the pakset! As any balancing is part of the pakset, not part of simutrans itself.

So at first, which pakset do you use? Otherwise reasonable recommendations cannot be given.

Offline Václav

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Re: Simutrans is too hard
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2020, 01:38:16 PM »
That greatly depends on the pakset! As any balancing is part of the pakset, not part of simutrans itself.
I know that balancing is part of paksets, not game core. At least a partially. Because some things about balancing is very affected by game core.

I don't know which paksets Sandbox Player tried, but I tried pak128 and pak96.comic. And both paksets need this start. Really it is hard to start passengers and post transportation without solid base from freight transportation. And that pak96.comic is much easier than pak128.

Offline Isaac Eiland-Hall

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Re: Simutrans is too hard
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2020, 09:54:54 PM »
beginner mode is good for nothing. It is really for sandbox playing.

I disagree. If you want to play sandbox, -freeplay is the way to go, which I do. But I still have goals in the game: To try and move all goods and passengers. I just don't find the money part fun.

But for a beginner who DOES want to play for money, that mode can be helpful as you learn the game. It's much more forgiving of mistakes. You learn what does make money and what doesn't. And then when you are making too much money with that mode, you can turn it off and play a new game and see if you can still make money...

Offline Ters

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Re: Simutrans is too hard
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2020, 02:04:32 PM »
With pak64, it might be viable to start with passengers and mail. It is certainly not necessary to hava solid freight network going, although the starting year might be crucial. I have so far started with a mix of passengers and freight, and it just takes a few years until I can forget about the money.

Offline Václav

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Re: Simutrans is too hard
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2020, 07:05:37 PM »
With pak64, it might be viable to start with passengers and mail. It is certainly not necessary to have a solid freight network going
Problem of passengers and post transportation is that it takes some time before it makes sufficient amount of money to forget about of freight network.

Passengers and post coming to transportation network depends on network size very much. Level of tourist attractions (or so) has not so strong effect, at least in the beginning (of building of network)

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although the starting year might be crucial.
May it be. For more available vehicles. But higher speed and capacity is more precious for intercity connections, where high(er) running costs may be paid easier.

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I have so far started with a mix of passengers and freight, and it just takes a few years until I can forget about the money.
It takes some time at all. But available industries may help very much - more than available vehicles.

Sometimes you may need to connect one or three chains. And sometimes it may be needed to connect much more chains - to have freight network that will be solid base for building of passengers and post network.

Offline Ters

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Re: Simutrans is too hard
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2020, 05:38:12 AM »
May it be. For more available vehicles. But higher speed and capacity is more precious for intercity connections, where high(er) running costs may be paid easier.
My point is that in some points of the timeline, high speed might not be as important. There may be few vehicles available, maybe just one, but it is profitable.

My strategy is more or less to find a big city and two nearby factories with a contract. I build a line between the factories, and then I start building out my passenger network, connecting suitable factories along the way. I prefer to just keep going outwards from that city, but usually, sooner or later, the towns get too small, too far apart or difficult terrain gets in the way. I then find a second big city and repeat. Eventually, I can link these two networks into one, and really start making money. At that point, I can stop worrying about construction costs.

I have so far started my games in 1900 at the latest, I think. (Except maybe the first game I played, which might have been started in 1930.) The earlier I start, the more waiting is involved, since the vehicles are slow.

Offline Isaac Eiland-Hall

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Re: Simutrans is too hard
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2020, 09:48:48 AM »
I never thought to build a passenger network using factories. Thank you for this idea!

Offline el_slapper

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Re: Simutrans is too hard
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2020, 01:56:23 PM »
A common start for me is to play in 1910 with PAK128, find a city above 10,000 inhabitants, and build a full tram system there. Profit is low, but real (count several years of RoI, not far from a decade). Then better vehicles of other categories begin to arrive, and various developments are possible. Most of my other PAK128 strategies have failed - even though I've done a few succesful industry starts.

Offline Freahk

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Re: Simutrans is too hard
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2020, 02:29:19 PM »
In pak128 I did usually start with an easy industry chain, for example a coal power plant.
That generates fair amounts of profits to start with and you usually get it nearly for free as roads are already there, apart from the last mile.

Then, I search for the biggest town that is surrounded by further fairly large towns within a reasonable distance and set up intercity bus lines in between that town and the surroundings.
Don't forget to setup an (likely on its own unprofitable) feeder service to cover the whole town.

Then I search for another town of that nature and do the same. Make sure it is not too far away from the other network, as you want to link these networks soon. If these two networks are too far away, locality factor and the required investments to build that route can quickly make your plans fail.

Finally, I connect those networks by rail. Once this step is done, your profits should be fair enough that you are not much constrained by money anymore. Feel free to expand as you please.

At least that's what I usually did. From my experience, starting with passengers directly can work well on a multiplayer server, if you cooperate with another company, but even in that case, I'd most often start with a coal industry chain. It will simply give you some starting capital, so you can expand faster.

I didn't try that tram tactics. To me it sounds like a rather expensive start which I would not expect to generate much profits.
It might work either, though. So feel free to try either of these.

Offline Antarctica

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Re: Simutrans is too hard
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2020, 04:10:33 PM »
In pak128, I start in 1931 and immediately build bus stops in front of many city halls, and run a few circular lines, each connecting about two dozen such stops (the lines are not interconnected, so after a short while the buses always run at 100% capacity). Once I have hundreds RVg-KS_4510-69 with RVg_Passanger_Trailer running in big circles all over the map at 100% capacity, with all stops overcrowded, I just let the game run for ten years to earn the money needed for train lines.
In 1940, when EMD-FT_(A) is available, I start with a double-track passenger rail line somewhere convenient to interconnect a few of the bus circles. All intermediate stations get a city bus line running through the city, usually in a circle (to reach 100% capacity), and feeding the rail line.
Gradually, I add more rail lines as budget permits. In 1954, 2Diesellokomotive is introduced and I replace all EMD-FT_(A) with it and start making real money with my rail traffic.
Then I gradually disassemble the circular bus lines by adding feeder rail lines and feeder buses.

Offline Václav

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Re: Simutrans is too hard
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2020, 07:49:59 PM »
In pak128 I did usually start with an easy industry chain, for example a coal power plant.
That generates fair amounts of profits to start with and you usually get it nearly for free as roads are already there, apart from the last mile.
Well, I prefer trains, if it is possible (due to distance). Not for their speed. For their capacity. Even if trucks are cheaper, as you need to many trucks to have equal capacity, they may begin very expensive for buying.
Also, earning of money with trains is not so continuous as in casde of trucks. But trains stations may cover smaller area to provide loading of trains of the same capacity.

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Then, I search for the biggest town that is surrounded by further fairly large towns within a reasonable distance and set up intercity bus lines in between that town and the surroundings.
Don't forget to setup an (likely on its own unprofitable) feeder service to cover theI  whole town.
It is not so strictly needed to begin in the biggest town. When you use factory from chains where you started as exchange point for people from more towns, passengers transportation density grows quite fast. But country tourist attractions may be used too.

Covering of whole town is needed. Mayor house or town tourist attraction as exchange point is very good.

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Then I search for another town of that nature and do the same. Make sure it is not too far away from the other network, as you want to link these networks soon. If these two networks are too far away, locality factor and the required investments to build that route can quickly make your plans fail.
When factories and country tourist attractions are used as exchange points, town may be a bit further from each other. But however, it very depends on way you use for intercity connections. Trams and buses demand not so distant towns, trains need greater distances - even if you begin with low capacity trains.

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Finally, I connect those networks by rail. Once this step is done, your profits should be fair enough that you are not much constrained by money anymore. Feel free to expand as you please.
I use trains even for shorter distances. But I differ used trains by distance, if it is possible.

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I didn't try that tram tactics. To me it sounds like a rather expensive start which I would not expect to generate much profits.
It might work either, though. So feel free to try either of these.
Trams are good for short intercity connections. Or for inner city lines connecting stops that are overcrowded or that have great chance to be overcrowded. However, sometimes it is needed to build their tracks across residential, commercial or industrial teritorries - or through underground. But if I am not wrong, pak128 may have not this possibility on high grade. So, there may be better to use some trains instead trams.