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Author Topic: [patch] Depot dialog improvement and convoy detail dialog adjustment  (Read 690 times)

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Offline Ranran

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(´・ω・`)This is Ranran's patch #3. 春のらんらんパッチ祭第3弾

Overview:
This is a consolidation of several patches posted earlier this year and further brush-ups. Contents are roughly divided into three groups.
(1) Add the tile occupancy bar
(2) Improvement of the depot dialog
(3) Adjustment of Convoy detail dialog

It seems that further improvement has occurred as a result of aging. Due to the amount of content, old content will be linked to it and new content will be posted in this thread. Please taste it. :)




Details:

(1) Tile occupancy bar
See below for some of the content and old disscussion:
[patch]Convoy length bar reloaded



(1a) Tile occupancy bar now supports automatic addition/removal of vehicles.
It informs you in advance of the number and length of vehicles that will increase or decrease by hovering over the vehicle panel.
For example, if 4 cars are added at the same time, the number of vehicles + 4 and the increased tile length for 4 cars will be displayed.


(1b) If the convoy assemble doesn't complete yet, you'll still see a little yellow bar to indicate the potential for tile growth.



(2) depot dialog

(2a) The displayable number has been increased because the display of selectable livery scheme has been changed to two columns.
(2b) If the vehicle has multiple liveries, the currently selected livery scheme will be highlighted. It should be noted that if the choice and the possession do not match, the first one will be chosen.



(2c) As described here, when upgrading a vehicle it will tell you in advance how the constraint will change.
(2d) Also, the number of vehicles being upgraded at the same time is shown in parentheses in the top "Vehicles".
Please check the link above for details.



(2e) Mouse over convoy vehicles to see a list of upgrade target vehicles.

Here, only the options are displayed, not the details. Here we will focus on how the role (shape of the vehicle bar) changes due to the upgrade.
Switch to upgrade mode to see the details.



(2e) Sell button now shows the sale amount. This is a commonly used technique to check execution.
The price at the time of purchase is displayed in "Cost:", but if it is different from the sale price, the character color will be royal blue. This indicates that the vehicle is not new.
(2f) tweak convoy information - overall layout looks like this:

Since acceleration and deceleration are a pair, these display units are generally unified. (For example, tractive force xx kN vs brake force xx kN, or acceleration x.x km/h/s vs deceleration x.x km/h/s.) So I unified with kN and lined up and down.






(3)Adjustment of Convoy detail dialog

(3a)If convoy is replacing, symbols and messages will be displayed at the top inside the maintenance tab.



(3b)Starting acceleration information is added to the spec tab.
Also made layout consistent with the depot dialog.



(3c)Information on the livery scheme applied to the maintenance tab is displayed.

Those displayed in brown indicate that a different livery scheme has been set from the livery scheme applied to convoy.
This implies that this livery may be rewritten if an overhaul is performed.
(That is, the livery of the vehicle L1 is the livery scheme currently set in convoy. But vehicle 1 is not.)



(4) Temporary measures were taken against the display bug of Replace dialog.
https://forum.simutrans.com/index.php/topic,18270.0.html





Translated words to be added:
Code: [Select]
Selectable livery schemes
Starting acceleration:
; %i km/h @ %.2f sec
; %i km/h @ %.2f - %.2f sec
; %i km/h @ %.2f sec -  %i km/h @ %.2f sec
no power at all
(%.*ft laden)
(%.*f-%.*ft laden)
Sell for %s



Github repository is here:
https://github.com/Ranran-the-JuicyPork/simutrans-extended/tree/depot-dialog-improvement


Thank you for the feedback so far.
I hope this modification will improve your gameplay comfort.
I would be grateful if you could give us new feedback on these. Thank you. (´・ω・`)

Offline Matthew

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Re: [patch] Depot dialog improvement and convoy detail dialog adjustment
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2020, 07:34:13 PM »
Ranran, thank you for making these improvements. But I think that you need to push them to Github, as I am not receiving any updated code.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: [patch] Depot dialog improvement and convoy detail dialog adjustment
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2020, 11:02:56 PM »
This looks very interesting - thank you for your work on this! I have not had a chance to test this yet, as I need to confirm that the fixes for private car routing are working properly without thread deadlocks before testing other code, but these definitely look like worthy improvements.

I should be grateful for anyone else's feedback/views on these patches.

Offline Ranran

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Re: [patch] Depot dialog improvement and convoy detail dialog adjustment
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2020, 10:48:36 AM »
But I think that you need to push them to Github, as I am not receiving any updated code.
No, the push was done correctly. Patches are being updated from late January to February, and changes made during that time have not been posted to older threads. Includes many changes as described here.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: [patch] Depot dialog improvement and convoy detail dialog adjustment
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2020, 12:15:58 PM »
Thank you for your work on this: this does look good. I have now had a chance to test this, and it seems to be working well. Overall, the enhancements are a clear improvement.

One query that I have - and I should be grateful for others' feedback on this - is in relation to the sell button. I wonder whether it would be clearer if the sale price would be given as a tooltip rather than integrated into the button text itself. I suggest this because one would normally expect the buttons to describe the action to be performed when pressing them, and tooltips to give extra information about what happens when one presses the button, rather than for the button text itself to change with the context. However, I should be interested, as stated above, on others' views on this.

Thank you again for your work on this - this is a splendid improvement.

Offline Ranran

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Re: [patch] Depot dialog improvement and convoy detail dialog adjustment
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2020, 02:59:03 AM »
Thank you for your thoughts.

I suggest this because one would normally expect the buttons to describe the action to be performed when pressing them, and tooltips to give extra information about what happens when one presses the button, rather than for the button text itself to change with the context.
I suggest the following proposal based on this.

The sell button toggles between three different labels/tooltips based on convoy nominal value and resale value.

case 1: nominal cost = resale cost
labelClear
*tooltipThe purchase will be canceled and the cost will be fully refunded.

case 2: resale cost = 0
labelDismantle
*tooltipDismantle all vehicles in the convoy. No costs will be refunded.


case 3: Other than those above, it means, nominal cost > resale cost
labelSell
*tooltipSell the convoy for %s

*Note: The tooltip text needs to be proofread because it is a new translated term.


What do you think about this?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2020, 04:41:01 AM by Ranran »

Offline jamespetts

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Re: [patch] Depot dialog improvement and convoy detail dialog adjustment
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2020, 09:25:49 AM »
We do need in the future to distinguish between selling a vehicle (i.e. putting it up for sale to other players) and scrapping it, when this distinction be introduced. At that point, there would be two buttons: one to put the vehicle up for sale, and the other to return it for a full refund (when new and unused) or alternatively scrap it (when not new and unused).

The button that is now marked "sell" would at that time be replaced with a button stating either "Return for refund" or "scrap", and a new button marked "Offer for sale" would be added.

Until then, we might mark the existing "sell" button as "Return for refund" where the resale value is equal to the nominal cost, "sell" when the resale value is less than this but greater than (say) 10% of this, or "scrap" when the resale value is <= 10% of the nominal cost.

Do people think that this is clear enough?

Offline Vladki

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Re: [patch] Depot dialog improvement and convoy detail dialog adjustment
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2020, 05:08:38 PM »
I would definitely not put a dismantle and sell/scrap at the same place to avoid confusion. The buttons should be:  [dismantle] [offer for sale] [refund/scrap]
I think in standard double click on vehicles dismantles the whole convoy, but I do not like that. Refund/scrap can be on the same button, as it will switch automatically according to if the vehicle is used or not.
Whether the sell/scrap price is shown on the button, tooltip, or where it used to be until now does not matter to me. If there are more buttons, there might not be enough space to show the price on it.

Offline jamespetts

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My apologies for not having replied to this earlier. I have now made some minor alterations to the text to add clarity and have incorporated this.

Ranran - I should be grateful if you could update Simutranslator accordingly. I should note that there were some merge conflicts in the Japanese translation file, which I resolved by reverting to that from the master branch, so you may need to re-add your Japanese translations for this.

Thank you very much for your work on this.

Offline Vladki

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Re: [patch] Depot dialog improvement and convoy detail dialog adjustment
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2020, 09:06:01 PM »
Ranran, thank you for the various improvements of depot/replace window. But I'd like to ask to get rid of the tooltips, and put all information on display.
Especially I was looking for the brake distance - which is very important for signalling, and after long time I found that there is soooo much information hidden in tooltips.
Please don't hide it this way. It is really unpractical to move mouse over there and here and focus is exactly at some tiny text. I cant imagine checking thote tooltips with touchpad...

And speaking about brake distance - that deserves to be put in the (existing) convoy info window for even quicker access.

Offline Ranran

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Thank you for your feedback.

Counter-measure I thought about it:
1) Hide the way wear factor in the "Weight:"(or "Maintenance:") tooltip. Because the way wear is one of the maintenance information, and the "factor" is not intuitive, it is related to the actual value but not the actual value. IMO, It's unclear how much this number actually costs, and whether it's high or low. I think it's actually a weight*way wear factor. Also, this information is not needed for vehicles such as ships.
2) Then move "weight" and "max. axle load" up one step. The brake distance is displayed in an empty place.


Option-A) Place a light blue (!) Symbol on the right edge of the item for which the tooltip is displayed. (This symbol is intended for use as the lowest level of warning, ie information. This design can be freely created by the pakset author.)
Some people may find this annoying. Because it is not displayed only when certain conditions are met.
However, It can be erased from ships and floating vehicles.
This means 4-5 guide symbols are always displayed.


I would like to ask people for their opinion as to whether this change makes sense.

Offline Vladki

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First - I don't mind if the information would occupy 1 or 2 extra lines. If anything is hidden in tooltip, some symbol would be nice to attract attention.

Way wear factor - Perhaps showing a Yellow /!\  if the factor is higher than default, and blue (!) if it is lower than default.
way_wear_factor:{E} How much the vehicle "wears" the underlying way. The wear is intended to be measured in 10,000ths of a standard axle load of 8t.

So show warning if way_wear_factor > axle_load / 8 * 10000

Offline Ranran

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Quote
Way wear factor - Perhaps showing a Yellow /!\  if the factor is higher than default, and blue (!) if it is lower than default.
way_wear_factor:{E} How much the vehicle "wears" the underlying way. The wear is intended to be measured in 10,000ths of a standard axle load of 8t.

So show warning if way_wear_factor > axle_load / 8 * 10000
What are the default numbers based on?
Fixed values should not be used for things that are not universal. I think that it may change depending on various factors such as country, ie pakset, waytype, era.

Offline Freahk

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I am wondering why there cannot be another line added so all data can be displayed without tooltips.
The current height of that area restricts the amount of different good types that can be displayed to 4 when mail or passengers are involved, which is usually enough for passenger/mail mixed trains but might not be sufficient in case of intercontinental shipping or cargo/mail backbone lines in general.

As Vladki mentioned while I was typing, there should be a hint if there is additional data available on mouseover.
I do not agree that this neccesarily has to be an icon, but I don't reject this as an option either.
In case of websites, you can frequently see such texts to be colored or underlined.

I am not sure if data in tooltips is generally a good idea, as tooltips are usually used to describe the meaining of the data rather than showing additional data.

Offline Vladki

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I am not sure if data in tooltips is generally a good idea, as tooltips are usually used to describe the meaining of the data rather than showing additional data.
- exactly !!!

Please just add more lines instead of tooltips.

As to way wear - i was quoting: https://forum.simutrans.com/index.php/topic,15174.0.html
standard_axle_load = 8 is defined in simuconf.tab. Vehicles that do not have an explict way_wear_factor use that to calculate: way_wear_factor = axle_load/standard_axle_load * 10000
use get_standard_axle_load() to get the value form simuconf.tab.  Axle_load itself may be calculated from weight/axles...