Topic: [patch] access charge record and improvement of line management dialog

[Ranran]

(´・ω・｀)This is Ranran's patch #4. 春のらんらんパッチ祭第4弾

Overview:
This patch is roughly divided into three parts:

(1) revive of access charge record
This was discussed here.
It was included in the acceleration curve chart patch before, but its contents were extracted and became independent.


(2) Tabbed the right part of the line management dialog
The addition of the access charge chart resulted in an increase in the number of chart buttons, causing problems with the layout of the line management dialog.
So I made tabs as a measure.


(3) improvement of the line management dialog
As a result of tabbing, there is a need and room for improvement.
However, this time, tabbing is the main purpose, so I do not make major changes. (´・ω・｀)
In the past, such discussions have been held. Regardless, another patch to complement this patch is currently in progress.


Details:

(1a) Access charges chart added to the convoy dialog


(1b) Access charges chart added to the line management dialog


(1c) Chart button colors have been adjusted


(1d) The order of buttons has been changed so that charts in the same group are continuous.

(2a) Tabbed the right part of the line management dialog - chart tab and convoy list tab
(2b) The number of convoys belonging to the line is displayed on the tab label.



Above of the right tab:
(3A) Added line type symbol next to the line name edit box
(3B) Displays the symbol of the goods category that is handled by the line



(3C) The Livery selector pull-down list has been moved to the upper right to solve the unselectable issue.
(3D) The choices in the Livery selector list of the line management dialog now show only the livery scheme of the vehicles included in the line. This greatly slims down the options.



(3E) Symbolized line status. This allows multiple bad statuses to be indicated at the same time.
This symbol displays its meaning in a tooltip when the mouse hovers over it.

If the pakset has no symbols, only one text with the highest priority status will be displayed


(3F) You can add a symbol indicating missing scheduled slot to pakset

Code: [Select]

Obj=symbol
name=MissingScheduledSlot(3G) To save space, clarify meaning, and make it easier for players to understand, some of the line statuses have been changed to display together with relevant content. For example, in the missing scheduled slot, the service frequency changes to a dark turquoise and a symbol is displayed.

Here is the source of the symbol sample
https://github.com/Ranran-the-JuicyPork/simutrans-pak128.britain/tree/MissingScheduledSlot-symbol


About the contents of the convoy tab:
(3H) Needless to say that the line to which the convoy of the line belongs is the line, so the display was deleted. This will reduce annoying text.
(3I) Symbol is now displayed on convoy where no load, replacing, and withdraw is set.
(3J) Alert symbol is now displayed on convoy that is stuck.



(3K) Added display mode switching function to convoy list. Press the button to switch the display mode.
- normal mode(default)
The display is the same as before, except that the meaningless line name has disappeared.


- payload display mode
This is useful for checking capacity and loading status.



- formation picture mode
This is useful for checking convoy's formation and vehicles health.




The times history window doesn't need to have a separate window, so you might think it would be better to tab it out here.
However, it has been postponed this time because it was not designed so and was likely to be troublesome. I think it should be done at the same time as adding a tab to the convoy dialog (because the times history button is also there) and it is easier to do it after incorporating the standard GUI changes.


This patch uses the function of the depot dialog improvement patch, so it is necessary to incorporate that patch first.


Translated words to be added:

Code: [Select]

cl_btn_general
cl_btn_payload
cl_btn_formationEDIT(2nd April): Changed from sl_ to cl_ for commonization with other dialogs
(cl seems to be short for convoy list)

My github repository is here:
https://github.com/Ranran-the-JuicyPork/simutrans-extended/tree/improvement-of-linemanager-2


I hope this modification will improve your gameplay comfort.
I would be grateful if you could give us new feedback on these. Thank you. (´・ω・｀)

EDIT:
Added link to my github repository for the sample of "missing scedules slot" symbol.

[Vladki]

It looks really good. But what is the meaning if yellow stars in formation display?

[Ranran]

what is the meaning if yellow stars in formation display?

Don't bother it. 
That symbol is displayed only in the debug mode and indicates that the vehicle is reversed.

[jamespetts]

Thank you for your work on this - this looks very interesting! I will have to finish flushing out all of the reported issues with private car routing before I can look at new patches at present, but I should be very grateful for others' feedback on this in the meantime, especially anyone who has had a chance to test this.

[jamespetts]

I have now had a chance to test this. Some comments, in no particular order.

1. I am not entirely sure of the utility of the tabbed right hand pane. My initial impression is that it looks a little odd without a chart at the top in all cases, but perhaps there was a reason for this not immediately apparent? Is this intended to improve usability in very large games?

2. Similarly, I am not sure about the utility of the button selection for the different displays. Even in a fairly large game, this does not seem to be necessary to avoid information overload, and I suspect that it would be easier and clearer if all the information were together, but I should be grateful for others' views on this.

3. The livery scheme selector is much improved and this is a particularly good enhancement.

4. Using symbols in addition to colours for problems is definitely a usability enhancement.

5. In lines where upgrades to vehicles are available, the current text states that the line has obsolete vehicles, even when none of the vehicles are in fact obsolete. A vehicle having an upgrade does not necessarily mean that it is obsolete: some vehicles have upgrades to different contemporaneous types. I suggest that this text be modified.

6. The additions to the charts are most helpful.

7. The line filter is excellent - but it would be more user-friendly if it were case insensitive. Do not worry if this is an excessive amount of work, but it would be helpful.

In any event, thank you again for your work on this: this is most helpful.

Does anyone else have any views on these changes, incidentally?

[Vladki]

5. In lines where upgrades to vehicles are available, the current text states that the line has obsolete vehicles, even when none of the vehicles are in fact obsolete. A vehicle having an upgrade does not necessarily mean that it is obsolete: some vehicles have upgrades to different contemporaneous types. I suggest that this text be modified.

Sure, that sounds confusing, and the word obsolete is not needed there. The important information is that an upgrade is possible, whether the vehicle is obsolete or not.  Moreover I think that for a good play, the vehicles that have a future upgrade, should not be obsoleted before the upgrade is available. Otherwise, players might be tempted to scrap them before they have chance to upgrade them. I think that also real world most vehicles were upgraded while still used (e.g. when they needed a major overhaul anyway). I think that there were not many cases when something not used for long time was used for an upgrade. Also in real world you can mothball unused stock, or just let it rust on dead end track, without any costs. You can't do that in simutrans - even things stored in depot cost you a lot in monthly maintenance (which was discussed several times).

[wlindley]

A splendid improvement!

As for James's #1 and #2:

• I suggest moving the button-whose-legend-changes (General, Payload, Formation) up to the tab level so there are four tabs: ("Convoys (4)", "Payload", "Formation", "Chart") to reflect the actual tabbed contents.

The only wish I can imagine is: Is there a way to filter lines by the cargo types they carry? It would be wonderful to list only the lines that carry mail, for example.

[Ranran]

Thank you for your feedbacks.

5. In lines where upgrades to vehicles are available, the current text states that the line has obsolete vehicles, even when none of the vehicles are in fact obsolete. A vehicle having an upgrade does not necessarily mean that it is obsolete: some vehicles have upgrades to different contemporaneous types. I suggest that this text be modified.

As suggested I have separated upgradeable and obsolete.
As a result, obsolete is considered to be a more problematic alert, so obsolete has a higher display priority.
Then, the upgradeable text color of the line name became easier to be hidden by another issue, but it is easy to check the formation picture "which vehicle" can be upgraded, so it is recommended to use it for confirm.

2. Similarly, I am not sure about the utility of the button selection for the different displays. Even in a fairly large game, this does not seem to be necessary to avoid information overload, and I suspect that it would be easier and clearer if all the information were together, but I should be grateful for others' views on this.

It should be noted that this list has a common design with the vehicle list.
I've been busy lately and it has been late to implement this. Now you can check it.


I think this list display is useful when there are many vehicles on one line.
And it is more convenient for the list to see more convoys at the same time.

Text colors and symbols tell the convoy upgrade or obsolete, but not "which vehicles" are upgradeable or obsolete.
Also when carrying multiple goods, it is not clear which category is full and which category has room.


I am planning of adding a button such as "spec" for the toggle button on the convoys tab.
For example, you can check the maximum speed, acceleration, axle weight, and comfort level.
Maximum speed and acceleration can help you find the convoy that is causing the delay.
Displaying the comfort level helps you find convoys that are reducing the average comfort level (travel time) of the line.
I think it might be better to focus on the first button for maintenance and fixed costs.
I believe that specializing the display content will improve convenience.

1. I am not entirely sure of the utility of the tabbed right hand pane. My initial impression is that it looks a little odd without a chart at the top in all cases, but perhaps there was a reason for this not immediately apparent? Is this intended to improve usability in very large games?

As I said above, I think it is more convenient to display many convoys at the same time without scrolling the convoy list.
On the other hand, in my opinion, the chart buttons take up a lot of space.
(I thought about collapsing this, but I thought it would be difficult to use it unless I saw the color legend.)
In addition to this, the number of buttons has increased by one, and the delivery selector has been moved to the right panel to avoid conflict.
As a result, more area is occupied by the chart and the area of the convoy list is reduced.

As for James's #1 and #2:
I suggest moving the button-whose-legend-changes (General, Payload, Formation) up to the tab level so there are four tabs: ("Convoys (4)", "Payload", "Formation", "Chart") to reflect the actual tabbed contents.

Right now there are only two tabs, but I plan on adding a new tab here in the future.

One tabs the times history I mentioned above.


Second, I plan to implement something like the smartphone app commonly used in Jalapagos.

This is currently in progress as a separate patch. The screen is still in the mock-up stage.
It would be more convenient to add more information here.
This is useful for seeing the operation status of the line.


Thirdly, I want to make statistics that are often used in the real railway industry.
It is called a transport density graph and records the amount of use between stations.


For these reason, I think it is better to switch the display of the first tab with a button instead of duplicating the tab as suggested by wlindley.

The only wish I can imagine is: Is there a way to filter lines by the cargo types they carry? It would be wonderful to list only the lines that carry mail, for example.

This seems to be a very attractive feature. As mentioned above, this is a common design with the vehicle list, so it is possible to narrow down, but in consideration of the time required for coding, I would like you to make a future plan instead of this time (´・ω・｀)
Here, instead of opening another window and executing the filter, I hope that you can treat the category symbol like a button and turn on / off the refinement. I think that the function to make the symbol a silhouette has been added to the new GUI of standard.

7. The line filter is excellent - but it would be more user-friendly if it were case insensitive. Do not worry if this is an excessive amount of work, but it would be helpful.

This is a standard feature and I haven't made any changes.

[Vladki]

For me it it is confusing to have a button, that changes what is displayed, like the "cl_btn_general" in vehicle list. I know that this is used in the vehicle list already now (e.g. ascending/descending), but I would prefer to avoid adding more such buttons, and even replace those existing. I would replace them with combo box / list, like the one in depot (append/insert/upgrade/sell) or livery selector. Or where appropriate (and if space is not an issue) with tabs. Buttons should be used only for actions (like withdraw, sell, send to depot), or for opening further windows (e.g. class manager)

[Ranran]

I would replace them with combo box / list, like the one in depot (append/insert/upgrade/sell) or livery selector.

Unfortunately I don't know how to solve this problem. (´・ω・｀)


EDIT:
As I reported in another thread, overlapping pull-down lists seems to be an extended-specific bug.

[Vladki]

You perhaps misunderstood me. I did mean the buttons that change their label after being pressed, like those marked with red dots in this picture:
These should be a combo box, or separate tabs (convoy profits, convoy payload, convoy formations, convoy locations, charts)

[Ranran]

You perhaps misunderstood me.

I don't think so, it's a pulldown list. (But the list is empty.)


What I wanted to say is that the below convoy information and the characters in the pull-down list overlap.
This is the same symptom as the current nightly build's livery select list. (´・ω・｀)

separate tabs (convoy profits, convoy payload, convoy formations, convoy locations, charts)

I don't think splitting the convoy list by tabs is a good idea.
1) If the list is large, it is easy to lose track of the desired convoy
For example, I wanted to check the information of the 30th convoy in tab1. Then I need to scroll to the 30th after switching to tab2.

2) Adding a sorting and filtering function can be cumbersome in usability and coding.
Where do we control the filtering of lists on tabs except charts?
Do we make it outside tabs? It looks unnatural because of the chart tabs. (Similarly, the convoy location tab I want to add will not need the effect of the sorting.) Probably in a tab is good idea. Because it is clear that it affects the list in the tab.


EDIT:
As I reported in another thread, overlapping pull-down lists seems to be an extended-specific bug.

[jamespetts]

Thank you for your work on this. I have now pulled and tested the latest version.

I do agree with Vladki that a button whose text changes with the changed state is not the ideal way of organising information: the suggestion of multiple tabs made by W. Lindley, would, I think, be clearer. I am still not sure of the benefit of splitting this information - can we not have all three datasets in the one window/tab? That would save players from having to switch between tabs/states to see multiple items of information.

Nonetheless, the symbols for obsolescence, missed slots, etc. are very useful and the change to the livery scheme selector and line filters are definitely worthwhile. I wonder whether some further consideration might be given to the general/formation/payload tabs?

I have merged the changes with the master branch on my line-dialogue-improvement branch; again, I force-resolved the Japanese translation text issues, so you may need to fix this.

Thank you again for your work on this so far: it is much appreciated.

[Ranran]

Thank you for testing and incorporating.

I am still not sure of the benefit of splitting this information - can we not have all three datasets in the one window/tab? That would save players from having to switch between tabs/states to see multiple items of information.

I'm really struggling with a layout that is easy to see and use.
I agree with ideal not to use the toggle button.
On the other hand, I want to arrange as many convoys as possible at the same time. It improves the player's understanding of information.
Next I want the same information to be right next to each other. It is common in statistics and easy to compare. It's like a table.

Well it looks like it's seen in another game... (´・ω・｀)

Also, when these are sorted, it is easier to see that they are vertically aligned.

Since there are many factors with large fluctuations in width, so I struggle with layout.
- The image of convoy largely depends on pak set size. Of course, the appearance of the vehicle is also one factor that identifies a unique vehicle.
- The convoy name and line name vary greatly depending on the language and player.
- The amount of formation information depends on the number of vehicles.
 However, I think that the order of vehicles and their shapes are useful for players to recognize their unique convoy.
 Also, it is easy to recognize that obsoleted vehicles are mixed in the convoy. It's also clear that certain categories are full or crowded.
- The amount of information in the goods category carried by convoy varies depending on the convoy.
 For example, the difference between a convoy carrying only one class of passengers and a convoy carrying multiple classes of passengers and multiple freight categories.


It is sandwiched between ease of use and layout and current specifications...
Is it better to create a tab exclusively for data?

[jamespetts]

Perhaps one way of solving this problem would be to have multiple tabs, but to have some information, including the convoy image and name and perhaps some other basic data (capacity, load, profit, perhaps), stay the same between the different tabs, so that only some of the less frequently accessed information is hidden by changing tabs. Perhaps the basic information could include a symbolic representation of things shown numerically in certain tabs, e.g. using a mini-graph in the basic information but giving the data numerically in one of the tabs.

Would this be workable, do you think?

[Ranran]

I have merged the changes with the master branch on my line-dialogue-improvement branch

This patch doesn't seem to be incorporated yet. I was aware of that, but I was waiting to avoid a revision number conflict. Now I've pushed the one that avoided those conflicts.

[jamespetts]

Thank you for that. I have attempted to merge this latest into my line-dialogue-improvement branch for further testing, but I get a fatal error when I attempt to load the pakset in the following terms:

Code: [Select]

FATAL ERROR: successfully_loaded() class skin_desc_t-object InputOutput not found"

I should be grateful if you could look into this so that I can test further.

Thank you for your work on this so far.

[Ranran]

Thank you for confirmation. It was caused by not correctly resolving the conflict, but in my case I had the additional symbol pak so it was overlooked without the error.
This has been fixed on my branch now.

[jamespetts]

Splendid, thank you, this appears to solve the problem.

I realise that I made a slight error in my previous post in referring to tabs; I had confused the function of the tabs with the function of the new button ("General", etc.). I can understand the reasoning behind splitting convoys and chart into separate tabs, but I wonder whether the separation of the information with the button might be made easier for players by repeating some basic information for each of the options? Given that there is a large amount of horizontal space spare in most cases, this should be achievable as far as I can see. I wonder whether the information in "general" might be repeated so that "general" is no longer its own category, and all the information in the other button options would then appear to the right of the general information depending on the press of the button, the "general" information being fixed?

I should be grateful also for others' views on this functionality.

Aside from my reservations about the number of button clicks required to access information in the right hand tab of the line management window, this is really very helpful and adds splendid features, so it would be good if this one aspect might be looked into a little more.

Thank you again for your work on this.

[Sirius]

Aside from my reservations about the number of button clicks required to access information in the right hand tab of the line management window

If window classes could "remember" some of their state globally, like the opened tab and selections within that tab, the additional number of clicks will be negligible, as players are usually interessted in the same information from multiple objects.

[Ranran]

Thank you for your feedback.

I wonder whether the separation of the information with the button might be made easier for players by repeating some basic information for each of the options? Given that there is a large amount of horizontal space spare in most cases, this should be achievable as far as I can see. I wonder whether the information in "general" might be repeated so that "general" is no longer its own category, and all the information in the other button options would then appear to the right of the general information depending on the press of the button, the "general" information being fixed?

The expression "General" may not be right here. This is a traditional display method, which focuses on convoy pictures.
Other than that, display profit, loading bar, and line name (or in depot).

I may not understand your order correctly.

Please note that the convoy list panel is used in common with the vehicle list.


For example, in the second option, a convoy with many types of goods may have a long second line, and a long Line name may have a long third line.


I'm thinking of creating a new "statistics tab" whose purpose is to display data.
Therefore, the first tab is enough to display 3 patterns using picture and symbol, and I want to keep this.

Aside from my reservations about the number of button clicks required to access information in the right hand tab of the line management window, this is really very helpful and adds splendid features, so it would be good if this one aspect might be looked into a little more.

If window classes could "remember" some of their state globally, like the opened tab and selections within that tab, the additional number of clicks will be negligible, as players are usually interessted in the same information from multiple objects.

I changed the convoy tab to remember the selected tab state and the state of the chart button so they are retained even if the dialog is closed.

I haven't created a statistics tab yet, but I appreciate your feedback on these.

[Sirius]

I haven't created a statistics tab yet

Well I mentioned stats because the access charge record is a stat.
Anyways, that's a more-or-less gneral thought.
Windows should also remember their state, so when another window of the same type gets opened, it will directly show the same kind of information.


Anyways, great it was added now

[Ranran]

The patch is more beef up by aging 


A sorting function has been added to the convoy list of line manager. 

[Ranran]

Beef up occurred continuously today.

Next stop sort has been added to the sorting function to further increase fat.

To make effective use of this, I added the display of Next stop to the  Payload tab.
This is useful when you want to convert a convoy that is nearby from many convoys that are on the Line.


The mass of passengers was torn to class. 

Ideally, each class would have symbols and coloring, but there is no such thing at the moment, so I pasted the class name for the time being and dealt with it.
Also standing passengers were also quarantined.

I think these changes have largely filled James's worried GUI margins.


I've intimated adding an additional stats tab, but I think it will take more time.

I think that the changes so far will be useful for server games, so I would like you to test it once and incorporate it.
After that, it would be helpful if you could give us another feedback.
Thank you.(´・ω・｀)

[jamespetts]

Thank you very much for this: I have now incorporated this. I have renamed the "General" button "Overview" to make its function clearer.

[Ranran]

I have renamed the "General" button "Overview" to make its function clearer.

I didn't come up with a good word, but I think Overview is a good word. Thanks for fixing it.

[Sirius]

At first, this feature is great.

Second, there are two points I should have noted long ago, but I must admit I didn't follow this thread pretty much before.

The three state toggle between Overview, Formation and Payload is a little confusing, especially as there already is a tabbed window.
I'd suggest to create these as tabs instead, so there are 4 tabs instead of 2.
It should be easier to access that way and won't involve additional clicking, as the selected tab is remembered just as the state of the toggle.
Generally, I don't linke that toggle component pretty much, as it's unclear what kind of data is available and what will be the next.

There is a "Next stop" sorting, again using a toggle button. I'd rather use a dropdown here, but that's not the point.
The "Next stop" order will sort stops by lines stop index of the nex tstop.

That means, a line A-B-C-D with mirrored schedule will sort convoys the following way:
B->A
A->B
C->B
B->C
D->C
C->D

In many cases it might be preferable to sort them by the stop index of the mirror expanded line, that means
A->B
B->C
C->D
D->C
C->B
B->A

B->A is arguable, might insead be displayed first instead of last.


Further, please show the reversed state of vehicles in the list. Not sure if the current rather confusing display of [<<] , which is "will reverse at the next stop" is needed at all and why exactly it's displayed in the payload mode. I'd rather expect it to be displayed in overview mode or everywhere as it doesn't really match any of the other two categories.

In any case, great work!

[Ranran]

It seems there is a bug that crashes when opening linemanagement dialog on linux. (´・ω・｀)

[Sirius]

Cannot confirm this to be generally related to Linux. On my Linux device it works fine.

[Huitsi]

Specifically, I crash when trying to view some of my lines in the line management dialog. AFAICT these seem to be the lines with most convoys, like Wykstoke Ferry.

Code: [Select]

*** buffer overflow detected ***: /[--]/simutrans-extended terminated

[Sirius]

I can now confirm this.
opening "Anningdale - Pyewater trunk ferry", which has 148 ships, crashed the game on Linux, the Windows build is fine with it.

[Ranran]

Is it possible that the missing "missing schedule slot symbol" from the pak128.Britain is causing a crash in Linux?
Anyway, I pull-requested the symbol.

opening "Anningdale - Pyewater trunk ferry", which has 148 ships, crashed the game on Linux, the Windows build is fine with it.

Does Linux cause any problems due to the large number of convoys...?

[Ranran]

The three state toggle between Overview, Formation and Payload is a little confusing, especially as there already is a tabbed window.

Certainly this seems rather awkward as some have pointed out. I'm thinking of putting another tab inside a tab.
EDIT:
This may be a bit complicated with the addition of a sort button.

[jamespetts]

Thank you for that - now incorporated. I should be grateful if people could confirm with to-morrow's nightly build whether this fixes the crash.

[Ves]

As to the three sort buttons, may I suggest you make two of them as comboboxes, and the "Ascending/descending" button a checkbox instead? I think that would help the clarity. Also, this is how the stop and convoy info window deals with the sorting of cargo.