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Author Topic: [patch] access charge record and improvement of line management dialog  (Read 3591 times)

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Offline wlindley

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Could the Withdraw All button perhaps be moved away from the other buttons?  It's all too easy to blitz a Line when you only wanted to change its livery

Offline freddyhayward

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I initially started another pull request with various changes and fixes, and I see that James merged one of the individual commits from that branch. Admittedly, there were potentially controversial layout changes in that branch so I have replaced it with two separate pull requests, one for simpler fixes (https://github.com/jamespetts/simutrans-extended/pull/191) and one for larger changes(https://github.com/jamespetts/simutrans-extended/pull/192).

Offline jamespetts

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I initially started another pull request with various changes and fixes, and I see that James merged one of the individual commits from that branch. Admittedly, there were potentially controversial layout changes in that branch so I have replaced it with two separate pull requests, one for simpler fixes (https://github.com/jamespetts/simutrans-extended/pull/191) and one for larger changes(https://github.com/jamespetts/simutrans-extended/pull/192).

Thank you for that. Would you be able to explain the changes in more detail so that we can obtain feedback on them before considering integration?

Offline freddyhayward

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Thank you for that. Would you be able to explain the changes in more detail so that we can obtain feedback on them before considering integration?
#191is fairly straightforward: it fixes a bug where the line capacity bar would appear at position (0,0) when first selecting an empty line. It also fixes the the livery selector which displayed incorrect information.
#192 moves the stops list into a tab allowing the lines list to expand.

Offline Ranran

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Since servers are the age of ships and horses, there are a large number of ships and horse lines. Almost no trains or trams.
On the other hand, TBH, the display area of the current station list of line management dialog is too small to be useful.
I think it is better than the current situation to include the list of stations in the tab.  :thumbsup:


Some suggestions for improvement:
The left line list is too big. I think it is good to enhance the filter function.
Add an option button to narrow down the line by goods category. For example, it is convenient to be able to extract only the line containing bulk from the line of many ships.
The station list will be displayed with priority given to the number of waits for the corresponding cargo.
We do not need information about the number of passengers waiting at station for the mail/goods line.

EDIT:
I haven't seen much about the region function yet, but can we narrow it down to specific regional lines?

Offline Ranran

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@James - Please revert the commit number f0aca8786d7fdb7abf006b39793267d8ca0a4194 to re-enable tooltips that were temporarily removed.

Offline jamespetts

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f0aca8786d7fdb7abf006b39793267d8ca0a4194

Now done.

Offline Ranran

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Could the Withdraw All button perhaps be moved away from the other buttons?  It's all too easy to blitz a Line when you only wanted to change its livery
Check the pull request #193   ;)

Offline Ranran

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Ranran - are you able to locate the individual commit on the SVN's Github mirror where the Japanese character fix occurs? I might be able to port this manually if this is not too heavily connected to code that has diverged fundamentally between Extended and Standard
Quote
Thank you very much for finding this. Fortunately, this was easy to incorporate and I have now incorporated this. I should be grateful if you could re-test.
I apologize for the late confirmation. This issue has not been resolved yet. The symptoms are the same as before. I wonder if I missed a commit related to this. (´・ω・`)
But rest assured. Japanese people are calm and do not cause riots.

Offline jamespetts

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This is unfortunate.

If anyone can identify any other missing commits necessary for this to work, this would be most helpful.

Offline Ves

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Could the Withdraw All button perhaps be moved away from the other buttons?  It's all too easy to blitz a Line when you only wanted to change its livery

The Withdraw all button has moved to the previous "change prices" buttons position, which is VERY dangerous, as one has gotten used to the location of each button. Ranran, could you move the button one further space right, so that the row of buttons looks like this:

[Change prices] [Times History]                       [Withdraw all]

I think the long term solution for this is to have another tab with all critical action buttons that you can do on the line as a whole. I know that currently it is only that one "withdraw all" button, but it would not be unrealistic to foresee new buttons in the future like: "Sell all immediatedly" "Set all to reverse" "Set all to nonreverse" "Set every second to reverse" "Upgrade all" etcetc.

However, for the moment, I think that the "withdraw all" button should just be moved to the far right, so as to minimize false actions.

Offline Ranran

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I don't think small spacing is effective for people who do not read the button text.
I still think it's a little better than doing nothing.

A short-term solution is to change the color of the text or the background color of the button.

In the slightly troublesome plan, the button will not work unless you check the check button. But this may be difficult to understand without an explanation.

A future idea is to implement a type of button that can display symbols inside the button.
Also, the Journey time measurement button will be removed from this location by putting it in the tab.
Similarly, could the change price also fit in a tab?

Online Freahk

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This is definitely VERY dangerous!
I do still catch myself changing the "show" type of the vehicle list, when I want to enable the filter, because the enable filter button was in that place before.
Once you are used to an UI, you will just use it that way.

A small spacing is not effective for people that randomly click anything without reading, but it is very effective to not have the button located in a place where there had not been an other button in the past.

Similarly, could the change price also fit in a tab?
This sounds like a good idea to me.

Offline Ves

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I would prefer buttons that one needs frequent and not being dangerous to press to be easily accessible, while the other more "dangerous" buttons can be hidden more away. Changing the color of the withdraw button will make the already busy window more busy, and if it remains in the position it is, it will still be a hazard area, not solving the current problem.

Solving this for the moment by moving the withdraw button to the far right is the best solution I can think of as it does two things:
1) It moves the button away to an area that is less dangerous and prone to misclicks, and
2) it changes the layout of the window, breaking our habits, making us pay attention to them
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 12:20:22 PM by Ves »

Offline Ves

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Sorry to double post, but I just reread this line from Freahk, and couldnt get my head around it:

Quote
but it is very effective to not have the button located in a place where there had not been an other button in the past.

Did you really mean that double negative sentence, so that empty space where there used to be empty space is what is very effective? Or the other way around, that a button in a place that used to be empty space is very effective? :o :P

Offline Ranran

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I changed it so that the withdraw button sticks to the right edge of the dialog, but it should be noted that the minimum width of this dialog's right part is 3 buttons. In that case there is only a small gap.
Sadly, the first mistake is that such a dangerous button was on the first (left). (´・ω・`)

Offline jamespetts

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Thank you - now incorporated.

Online Freahk

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Just strike out one of the negations

Offline Vladki

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If "withdraw all" is considered dangerous, wouldn't it be better to replace it with "retire all", which does not sell the vehicles, but sends them to depot? And/or to make it a switch - like on each vehicle, that will stop the action and return (remaining) convoys to normal operation?

Offline Ves

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Thank you Ranran  :D

Another thing I wondered if you would consider: Adding the distance to destination in the destination field. Combined with the "next stop" sort mode, this should make a very powerfull tool to be able to see the locations of ones convoys!

Offline Ranran

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Another thing I wondered if you would consider: Adding the distance to destination in the destination field. Combined with the "next stop" sort mode, this should make a very powerfull tool to be able to see the locations of ones convoys!
Oh, I didn't think about doing multiple sorts. Can it be combined with reverse order?


I wanted to display such information in a dedicated GUI as explained earlier in this thread.
Second, I plan to implement something like the smartphone app commonly used in Jalapagos.

This is currently in progress as a separate patch. The screen is still in the mock-up stage.

It would be more convenient to add more information here.
This is useful for seeing the operation status of the line.
I sometimes check the freight line on the server from time to time, but it will be useful in such a case.
They are sometimes clogged in large numbers at the first station.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2020, 07:03:29 AM by Ranran »

Online Freahk

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I have understood Ves suggestion in a slightly different way: Don't show the distance in between stops in general but to show the distance to the next stop to each vehicle.
If that was the suggestion, I agree with it. Otherwise, I'm not sure about it.
In any case, the convoy location tab seems quite useful. It will immediately point out vehicles piling up somewhere :)

Does the yellow color of the arrows indicate vehicles waiting? It might be great to color-code driving for example in green, waiting for clearance for example in yellow and waiting at a stop (loading, waiting for schedule, waiting for load and so on) for example in blue.
Reversing might deserve a different arrow icon.

Offline Ranran

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I have understood Ves suggestion in a slightly different way: Don't show the distance in between stops in general but to show the distance to the next stop to each vehicle.
I knew it. It is displayed in the convoy information. The issue is that it represents proximity but may not be in the same position. There is a difference between going from A to B and going from C to B.


Does the yellow color of the arrows indicate vehicles waiting? It might be great to color-code driving for example in green, waiting for clearance for example in yellow and waiting at a stop (loading, waiting for schedule, waiting for load and so on) for example in blue.
Reversing might deserve a different arrow icon.
At first I tried to make the arrow so that it was in both directions, but when it overlapped on one block, the display was confused.
Also, it did not reflect the exact position.
Yellow was loading at the station, stack was orange, no route was red and out of service was gray, but that work was lost by accident and needs to be redesigned.
But it was a view-only UI. (´・ω・`)

I would like to make a UI that opens the vehicle info when clicked it.

Online Freahk

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There is a difference between going from A to B and going from C to B.
Obviously there is a difference.
I'd assume A train moving from A to B to be in between A and B, ordered according to its distance to B and trains from C to B to be in between B and C, again ordered according to its distance to C, but showing the distance to A.
vehicles from B to A would be in the same location as A to B, again ordered by their distance to B, but showing their distance to A and using an arrow pointing upwards instead of downwards to make the direction clear.

Offline Vladki

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In any case, the convoy location tab seems quite useful. It will immediately point out vehicles piling up somewhere

Yes that would be useful.

Offline Ves

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Wow, that convoy location tab looks awesome as well!

Yes Freahk was correct in his interpretation.
The comvoy location tab is perhaps just a mockup, but perhaps the distance to target can be displayed there?