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Missing gear on EMUs - 312, 317, 318

Started by Vladki, April 13, 2020, 09:28:32 PM

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Vladki

These emus lack the usual gear=80, and thus are more powerful than really should be.

br-312.dat
br-317.dat
br-318.dat

jamespetts

Thank you for the report: now fixed.
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Vladki

At least class 317 seems quite underpowered now. I'm looking for more information. So far it is a bit contradicotry:

simutrans 317: 764 kW, 73 kN, gear 0.8
wikipedia 317:
Power output   746 kW (1,000 hp)
4x GEC G315BZ traction motors.

simutrans 319: 990 kW, 75 kN, gear 0.8
Wikipedia 319:
Power output   4 × 247.5 kW (331.9 hp)[2] = 990 kW
Traction motors   4 × GEC G315BZ[3]

https://www.angeltrains.co.uk/Products-Services/Regional-Passenger-Trains/13
317: 4 x GEC G315BZ of 247.5 kW each per motor car = 990.0 kW...   (990 *0.8 = 792)

So I think we should raise the power to 990 kW and maybe the tractive effort to the same values as 319

And it seems that class 318's motors have the same specs, just made by Brush:

https://uk.railway.narkive.com/5VSBrKqB/gec-315bz-traction-motor
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/maximum-acceleration-rates-of-multiple-units.122789/


simutrans 318: 764 kW, 73 kN, gear 0.8
Power output   1,072 kW (1,438 hp), 4x Brush TM2141

Furhter reading:
https://archive.vn/20190422101517/http://www.railway-centre.com/class-318.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20070927210506/http://www.therailwaycentre.com/Recognition%20Tech%20Data%20EMU/EMU_319.html  (318, 317 and 312 are there as well)


jamespetts

Thank you for spotting this. Does the Wikipedia page give a source? It is not obvious from the information in your post which way that the conflict should be resolved.
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Vladki

Class 317: Power output   746 kW (1,000 hp) -- no source mentioned
Class 318,319,312 - source for wikipedia is www.railway-centre.com (archived) - EDIT - it is alive!!! And has tech specs for lots of stuff
In case of 318, they have acceleration info from https://eversholtrail.co.uk/fleet/class-318/

Vladki

#5
I have two patches in preparation:

Classes 317, 318, 325
- seting capacities for class 317 and 318 according to http://www.railway-centre.com/class-317.html
- power and tractive effort of 317/318/319/325 united at 990 kW, 75 kN (based on 319 which runs fine in game).
Sources are consistent in that they have the same/similar engines, but not consistent on the power (990 vs. 1072 kW)
At least tractive effort of 75 kN nicely matches the acceleration 0.56 m/s/s stated at https://eversholtrail.co.uk/fleet/class-318/   If we would want 0.56 acceleration for classes 317/319/325 the TE shoud be 96 kN. (And the 325 had 93 kN)... So again tough decisions...
- running cost adjusted to keep the same power/runnigcost ratio

Clases 313, 314, 315
- added missing gear on rear motor on 314, 315
- suspiciously huge tractive effort (2x75) given quite weak motors (2x 328 kW).
https://eversholtrail.co.uk/fleet/class-315/ says acceleration 0.75 m/s/s (wow), that would be 2x 63 kN (wow!)
Using that acceleration for 3-car units of call 313 and 314 would give only more reasonable 49 kN.
Setting 63 kN to the short units would give them impressive acceleration 0.97 m/s/s !
On the other hand setting 49 kN to 4-car class 315 would mean acceleration 0.58 m/s/s (still not bad for that era)
Any ideas, or sources to confirm the above values?

313, 314, 3-car units, 120 km/h, 2x 328 kW, (2x 49 kN = 0.75 m/s/s) or (2x 63 kN = 0,97 m/s/s)
315, 4-car unit, 120 km/h, 2x 328 kW (2x 49 kN = 0,58 m/s/s) or (2x 63 = 0,75 m/s/s = everholt specs)
318, 3-car unit, 145 km/h, 1x 990 kW (1x 75 kN = 0,56 m/s/s = everholt specs) or (96 kN = 0,71 m/s/s)
317, 319, 4-car units, 160 km/h, 1x 990 kW (1x 75 kN = 0,44 m/s/s) or (1x 96 kN = 0,56 m/s/s)

It seems to me more appropriate to have 3-car units at 0,71-0,75 m/s/s and 4-car units at 0,56-0,58 m/s/s.
Simply that the everholt acceleration specs for 315 and 318 are swapped

Nice specs: https://web.archive.org/web/20150421071217/http://www.porterbrook.co.uk/downloads/brochures/319%20Brochure.pdf
BR-319 were refurbished 1996-1999. Should we move the retire year to 1999 ?

Vladki

#6
More info on acceleration found:
https://eversholtrail.co.uk/fleet/class-321/ -  Maximum acceleration: 0.55 ms-2 * 140.4 t / 0.8 gear = 96.525 kN
Class 321 has Brush TM2141C traction motors, Class 318 has TM2141 traction motors (so I guess the difference would not be big). Class 318 has top speed 90 mph, while class 321 has 100 mph, so the transmissions may be 0.9x slower (and 1.11x more force). I.e. tractive effort for class 318 can be 106.944 kN

Pull request ready:
It is split into several commits by classes, also includes some fixes to electrostars.
https://github.com/jamespetts/simutrans-pak128.britain/pull/91

Sirius

I'd expect the same.
Same engines, less vMax, more starting force.

jamespetts

Thank you for this - now incorporated.
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