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Offline Ranran

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Visualized factory storage
« on: May 22, 2020, 03:58:56 PM »
Hello. I brought a new sushi patch prototype from the eastern end again. (´・ω・`)

The purpose of this patch is to make it easier to visually understand the state of the factory storage.

Please taste it, you sommelier.



Goods are displayed in the same colors as station waiting bar, goods list and convoy detail loading bar.
A yellow bar shows the amount in transit. I removed its number display once, but do we need it?




In  the consumption storage, the frame of the storage bar turns orange red when it is full and yellow when it is empty and there is no in-transit(EDIT: add this flag).



Citizens are thin because they cannot eat meat. Deliver the meat to them!
This may be overkill, but it's a heartbreaking cry of the factory. We can't run the factory because we don't receive the material!



This may correspond to one of the more graphic symbol poorojects promoted by Ranran.
I dug up and reused the symbols that were abandoned in another thread.
Applying this to the station, as I showed in my previous experiments, will make it more fruity. But it has to wait for GUI overhaul.



Feedback on this is appreciated. Thank you. (´・ω・`)らんらん♪


EDIT:
- You can see this patch in the factory-gui branch.
- Changed the claimer to be a little gentler by not displaying the out-of-stock warning if there is an in transit
« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 06:24:51 AM by Ranran »

Offline Vladki

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2020, 04:03:30 PM »
A yellow bar shows the amount in transit. I removed its number display once, but do we need it?
There is a limit on in-transit goods (at least in standard), so it should have it's own bar. So every good should have two lines - storage and in-transit.

The frame of the storage bar turns orange red when it is full and yellow when it is empty in the consumer industry.
I think that is not needed.

Otherwise - very nice improvement.

Offline Ranran

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2020, 09:33:57 AM »
From this thread, regarding factory information dialog improvement
I wonder whether it would be better still to show the effects of staff and materials shortages in the "productivity" display?


1. Display of effects of productivity and staffing
Do you have a good idea to work well with "right staffing bar", "job demand" and "staff arrivals"?
It is easier to grasp these information if they are adjacent.
Since the upper part of the dialog is displayed in the traditional notepad style, major improvements take time. It may be easier to wait for the GUI overhaul to be incorporated.

2. Approach to factory utilization/productivity
James proposed a variation in productivity due to material shortage. I'm not sure if implementing this is easy.
It may need to be subdivided, and I haven't yet figured out how well I can respond.

In the secondary industry, the factory will stop when one of the materials is insufficient. Therefore, the utilization rate will be 0.
For primary industry example, orchard will continue to produce cider even if it stops collecting fruits. The operating rate at this time is 50%. Currently, at this time, the status bar turns light blue. In other words, it is possible that one line is stopped but another line is operating.
Is the ratio of actual / theoretical production for the month rather than the short-term span accurate?

Currently, the so-called maximum instantaneous productivity is displayed. I wonder if it's better to break this down.
The problem is that when the factory runs out of stock for a moment or the stock is full, it will be 0.

I think important information is how much the factory can be operated with respect to the theoretical maximum value.
But implementing that (instantaneous) uptime as to whether the factory line is up may be a bit more complicated.


One of the ideas is to figure out the utilization rate of last month from the record of last month.
Last month occupancy rate:120%  (I don't know if this English expression is correct)  :-[
This will be 0 if it wasn't running last month.
I think we can also display the theoretical value based on the elapsed time of the this month and the length of the month.


EDIT:
3. About the factory color status bar
One thing I noticed in a recent discussion about improving the attraction building list.
I used to play around with this and increase the colors  :-[ but now I don't think it's necessary to stick to having only one color status bar.

For example, divide it into three pieces: information about operating status, input storage, output storage.
The main color bar simply indicates unconnected, operating, (operating but some lines are down), not operating.
Other statuses will be easier to understand by changing the style and adding symbols. The staffing bar that already exists is one of them.
Perhaps it should make the factory list easier to read.


EDIT2:
There is a limit on in-transit goods (at least in standard), so it should have it's own bar. So every good should have two lines - storage and in-transit.
Currently, excess stock is not displayed in the bar. Will it be destroyed after it arrives? I think standard was so.
Well consider adding an intransit symbol anyway.


EDIT3:

I'm thinking of displaying the number of in transit with such a symbol. What do you guys think? The design may be very pre-Japanese (´・ω・`)
American design will be long sideways. But pakset authors can also design it to their liking.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 03:10:35 PM by Ranran »

Offline Milko

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2020, 07:29:21 PM »

I'm thinking of displaying the number of in transit with such a symbol. What do you guys think? The design may be very pre-Japanese (´・ω・`)

WOW, very good!!!, I like it,

Offline Ranran

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2020, 02:56:14 PM »
Testing in transit symbol:

I would appreciate if you could give us your feedback on the layout.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2020, 03:16:24 PM »
I like the symbols: this does make things much clearer. Ideally, one would also have mouseover tooltips, but these are not essential if the work involved would be excessive.

As to the layout, two comments: first of all, the colours would be better if they were slightly less bright and saturated: using the maximum brightness for colours (e.g. 255,0,0 for red) can be jarring; slightly lowering the saturation and brightness gives a more subtle and pleasing effect (see the colours in the depot window, for example, which are slightly more subtle versions of those found in Standard, which use the brightest colours).

As to the layout, as we can see, this does sometimes end up wider than the window. I wonder whether a layout that is not entirely horizontal would be practical, although I cannot immediately think of a workable alternative at present.

This is definitely interesting progress and clarification of the industry GUI, however.

Offline Vladki

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2020, 03:22:41 PM »
Why is the steel intransit value red?

I would expect steel storage and plastic intransit numbers to be red or orange to show that the storage is overflowing.
Any value below the maximum (and above zero) is OK so does not need to be highlighted.

Offline Milko

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2020, 04:21:24 PM »

Hello


Ideally, one would also have mouseover tooltips, but these are not essential if the work involved would be excessive.
Mouseover tooltip would be very useful, I agree that it should be done if it is not an excessive job.

As to the layout, as we can see, this does sometimes end up wider than the window. I wonder whether a layout that is not entirely horizontal would be practical, although I cannot immediately think of a workable alternative at present.

Divide each single line into two different lines? As in the case of locomotive information.

Giuseppe

Offline Ranran

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2020, 07:05:55 PM »
Ideally, one would also have mouseover tooltips, but these are not essential if the work involved would be excessive.
Mouseover tooltip would be very useful, I agree that it should be done if it is not an excessive job.
The function to place a tooltip on a symbol is included in this patch but that patch is not yet incorporated.


Quote
first of all, the colours would be better if they were slightly less bright and saturated: using the maximum brightness for colours (e.g. 255,0,0 for red) can be jarring; slightly lowering the saturation and brightness gives a more subtle and pleasing effect (see the colours in the depot window, for example, which are slightly more subtle versions of those found in Standard, which use the brightest colours).
Why is the steel intransit value red?
The reason I chose this color is because it's the same color as "Fully stocked" because of the implications of this.
Brighter color indicators are easier to see. Indeed, it is easier to see the letters in dark colors. But the color looks like brown when darkened with simutrans color.
As mentioned above, it may be better to consider including a review of the existing factory status indicator color.


Quote
I would expect steel storage and plastic intransit numbers to be red or orange to show that the storage is overflowing.
No, that means we are currently shipping more than it can store in storage. It will be discarded upon arrival. By default, max transit is set to 110% of storage.
EDIT: May not be discarded. Does anyone know in detail?


Quote
Any value below the maximum (and above zero) is OK so does not need to be highlighted.
I don't know if this is true. Can we get a profit from the discarded cargoes?


Quote
I wonder whether a layout that is not entirely horizontal would be practica
Quote
Divide each single line into two different lines?
Is it possible to move a unit to a tooltip if a symbol has a tooltip available?
Or make a header like goods name (unit) / storage / in transit / consume per month, and delete the unit and "/ month".
The last resort is to add a scrollbar.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 07:20:08 PM by Ranran »

Offline Vladki

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2020, 07:12:53 PM »
    Why is the steel intransit value red?
The reason I chose this color is because it's the same color as "Fully stocked" because of the implications of this.

I do not care about the color. I just wonder why an intransit value that is lower than max-intransit is highlighted, while the fact that the storage itself is over the max is not highlighted

Offline Ranran

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2020, 07:30:23 PM »
I just wonder why an intransit value that is lower than max-intransit is highlighted, while the fact that the storage itself is over the max is not highlighted
Storage highlighting said that you don't need it, so I removed it after all. The fact that the storage is full is certainly obvious at the storage bar.
On the other hand, it is not possible to judge from the storage bar whether it is transported beyond the storage capacity.
Should I consider changing the text color of the stock quantity?
I'm not sure if the storage inventory can overflow. As mentioned above, the default setting can transport an amount that exceeds storage by 10%. demo save exceeds max transit and storage capacity in various places. Is this just due to the just_in_time setting?

Offline Vladki

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2020, 07:50:03 PM »
Storage highlighting said that you don't need it, so I removed it after all.
I thought about the frame on the bar... That seemed to be not needed. But a colored numbers for full (and empty) storage would be imho good.
In extended I think the storage can overflow infinitely. In standard owerstock is discarded in JIT=2, but not in JIT=1 or 0. I dont know what different JIT values do in extended.

Offline Ranran

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2020, 12:05:02 PM »
I prototyped two samples.

(1)


(2)


How's these?



Quote
In extended I think the storage can overflow infinitely. In standard owerstock is discarded in JIT=2, but not in JIT=1 or 0. I dont know what different JIT values do in extended.
I thought overflowing inventory would be discarded, so I took over-delivery as a problem. If not, the alert is meaningless.
However, it is not realistic to accept meat if there is no room in the refrigerator already. It will be placed outside at room temperature. You will be transporting the pathogens instead of meat. The pandemic begins.


I didn't care about overflows on demo.sve because it was old data and may be only flooded by changes in the internal values of pakset. Such can happen with changes in pakset.
But I think I have to check the JIT specifications...

Online Ves

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2020, 02:25:03 PM »
Hello,
This really looks amazing Ranran!

A suggestion and a question:

Regarding the name of the string becoming too long, I would suggest to have the unit displayed in the very last entry. In both the latest examples, it looks a bit arbitrary, especially the "t". So I would suggest this layout:
steel *category icon*, 2530/118, *truck icon* 395/1026, 341 t/month
plastic *category icon*, 23/71, *truck icon* 40/10, 42 crates/month

The category icon does not have to be next to the category unit name, since they represent two different kinds of information. The category icon is most of all usefull together with the name of the cargo as that dictates what convoys are needed.

Also for the "cars" entry, it could be nice to have it displayd as:
cars, ..... ..... ..... 168 cars/month
just to make it consistent with the other goods entries.


Secondly, what is the colored square between the storage bar and the cargo name? It looks like it is the color of the good, but I suppose it is not? May I be so bold as to ask wether it is really needed?

Thirdly, It is not obvious to me why some values are highlighted and others are not.? IMO all normal values, which dont need the players attention, should be kept black, and only numbers which will require the attention of the player should be highlighted. The risk of overflowing the capacity (which I have seen happen on the bridgewater brunell server) I think should not be displayed until it is actually overflowed. And then it should not be a negative color like red or orange, but rather a positive one like dark green.

Otherwise, really great job! I think this improves an area that has greatly been in need for a GUI overhaul!  :thumbsup:

Offline Freahk

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2020, 02:58:07 PM »
So first, suggestions and thoughts:
As Ves said, the unit should be moved to the end. It looks quite strange to me as-is.
Apart from that, I'd prefer (1) over (2), as imho the cargo class icon belongs to the specific cargo type text.

It is not immediately clear that the first pair of numbers is the stock, although I am not sure if visual clarification is needed here and if so, how to visualise it.

I am also wondering what that square should express.

Anyways, it's great work. It really adds up a lot to usability already.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2020, 08:40:39 PM »
Thank you to Ves and Freahk for the useful feedback on this splendid work.

One passing thought that I have is that, since goods consumption and production is calibrated on the short time scale rather than the long time scale, I wonder whether it would be clearer to write "per 6:24:00" (or other figure if this be different in game) rather than "per month"? I should be interested in people's views on whether that would be easier, and Ranran's views as to whether this is achievable with a reasonable amount of work.

Online Ves

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2020, 10:02:11 PM »
Thank you to Ves and Freahk for the useful feedback on this splendid work.

One passing thought that I have is that, since goods consumption and production is calibrated on the short time scale rather than the long time scale, I wonder whether it would be clearer to write "per 6:24:00" (or other figure if this be different in game) rather than "per month"? I should be interested in people's views on whether that would be easier, and Ranran's views as to whether this is achievable with a reasonable amount of work.

I think it is ok to display it per month instead of per 6:20:00. However, if it where to change to something (maybe) more usefull, it could be per hour. I know that some industries produce very few units per MONTH, so it would be a fractal display per hour, but that is already incorporated, thanks to Ranran.
Another way of displaying, is to display time/unit. So instead of a factory producing 30 cars per hour, it produces one car every 00:02:00.

Offline Ranran

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2020, 02:15:28 PM »
I have pushed my work so far to the factory-gui branch. I haven't completed it as I still have to do some work, but you can see the basic behavior.
https://github.com/Ranran-the-JuicyPork/simutrans-extended/tree/factory-gui
Easy to associate goods color project, might enhance this feature. I would like you to test it together.


I think that James can give advice on whether the displayed contents and method match the intention of the system, and whether there is a part that can be improved.

In the new factory GUI, goods category, symbol, goods color, factory, station status color, etc. are displayed, and overall improvements have been made to help players keep track of information.

Also, the tabs will reduce the required area of the dialog. Probably the most used information is condensed on the first screen.
The overall design and layout is the same as the standard new GUI. The biggest difference is that tab 1 works like a list dialog. Left-click to open the dialog of the factory or station, and right-click to jump to the coordinates. This will open the factory/nearby station dialog directly, reducing the hassle. Also, the background of the factory where the dialog is currently opened changes to gray.
Another difference is that you can take advantage of the minimize button and hide the tabs. This is intended to keep lots of small dialogs open, useful for simulation games, making it easier to monitor many things. Then click the tab again to open it to the proper size.

Open another dialogs demo


Tab open/close, and tooltip demo


Display contents:
This is a mockup, so there is room for improvement.
From the discussion so far, it seems that there is a part where the specification is not completely grasped except James, but that perspective is important. What kind of information do you need and how it is easy to understand? A candid opinion can lead to improvement.



1) Main screen
occupancy late last month was added. This is a numerical value of how much production was performed against the monthly production when productivity was 100%.
In other words, an index of how much the factory has operated. To be honest, the current production/month is not useful unless combined with this. Because if there is no demand, the factory will stop production.
I think this is what James previously asked for Productivity. I think this is the number that should be recorded on the chart. Should we replace it with Productivity?
Perhaps some factories rarely perform at their original capacity and continue to show very low numbers. That is a contradiction between the meaningless false specs that have been displayed so far and the actual production volume. hope it will be improved.

I'm also wondering if we can calculate the monthly production forecast from demand. Maybe it will be more useful than the monthly production calculated from productivity.


Some text has moved to the "Building info." tab

In the standard this tab is named "Details".
The display here may be cooked and become graphical in the future.



Consumption and production:
Changed the layout according to Ves' advice.
Tooltip is placed on the symbol.

The second number on the right of the truck icon is max in transit, but I'm wondering what to do with this display.
I think the actual max in transit is the sum of the max transit of each supplier. Is this guess correct?
There are two limits. Players will feel limited by something they cannot see. James may be able to advise on this point.

This is the state before the industrial chain went live.


Even if the chain is in operation, shipping stops like this depending on the amount of consumption. (´・ω・`)



For some reason windmill keeps inventory 1. No longer produce.
Grain keeps 1 and is neither consumed nor received. So grain looks like max stock 1 and flour looks like max stock 1.
Players find it strange. Why don't grain farms ship?
I'm given an explanation so I know what's causing it. Is this easy for players who don't know anything?
Any ideas that can improve this are welcome.

I was wondering if I could draw a red vertical line to express that there is a limit, but I didn't know how to get that number.

I think this invisible limit is currently confusing players. And it often causes an eternal 100% wait.

Another weird thing is that even though they are in stock, they are reluctant to consume grain. Do not make extra stock. If the maximum stock of bakery is 2, it should be okay to keep 2 flour. It seems strange to stop the factory and leave the grain in place. I think there is too much room in product inventory.

Quote
what is the colored square between the storage bar and the cargo name? It looks like it is the color of the good, but I suppose it is not? May I be so bold as to ask wether it is really needed?
If the capacity bar is empty or in transit, you will not be able to see the colors of goods. Without it, we don't know if yellow is in transit or the colors of goods.
And this color is associated with the corresponding industry in the connection list.
It may be better to make the stock bar look like a cylindrical glass tube as in the convoy detail dialog. Anyway this is a work in progress.



Connections:
I've added some displays, which are currently also for testing purposes.
I don't think it needs explanation, but the color status bar has been added.

Suppliers and Consumers:
Basic layout is
[pos button] [factory status] [factory name] (coordinate) - (connected sign) [distance] [goods color] [lead time]
Only for consumer, [in transit symbol]in transit number/max intransit number (max transit number)

The connected sign may be misleading, but I am replacing brown pile with the goods category symbol so far.


Lead time is like a passenger's travel time. It is grayed out for other players.

When the demand is exhausted and the order is exhausted, the orange warning symbol is displayed first.
In that state, new orders will not occur, so when in transit goods reaches the destination, in transit and max transit will be 0 and will be displayed in red. When the order is resumed, it will be restored.


Connected stops (freight)
A station status bar is added. This is not the same as Passenger Mail and is a status for freight only.
Gray means there is no cargo convoy/line.
Station names is displayed in player color.
The brown pile and numbers are the freight waits and freight capacity of the station.
The amount being transferred is displayed in parentheses.
Next the capacity, the category of compatible freight departing/arriving at that station is displayed.
You can compare it with the connection and storage symbols to see if you can transport it.

Quote
I am also wondering what that square should express.
It is currently used in the goods list, and may also be used in the station dialog that made the mockup before. If such a common display is used everywhere, the player will intuitively understand it. In this dialog, it is also useful in comparing storage and connection.


Quote
One passing thought that I have is that, since goods consumption and production is calibrated on the short time scale rather than the long time scale, I wonder whether it would be clearer to write "per 6:24:00" (or other figure if this be different in game) rather than "per month"? I should be interested in people's views on whether that would be easier, and Ranran's views as to whether this is achievable with a reasonable amount of work.
I'm wondering if something like monthly order quantity or expected consumption is more useful than monthly consumption from current productivity, but I'm not sure how to do that.

goods chart color
I changed the goods chart to correlate with the goods color, which may be confusing when similar colors are present in the same factory. (´・ω・`)
If the next color is close, the colors are swapped, but the next two colors are not checked.
And since it is not judged by rgb, even if the color numbers are completely different, it is not possible to judge even if the colors are similar.


What needs to be fixed:
- It may be difficult to understand because yellow and gray compete with the sky and during transportation, so the color display of the inventory bar is made three-dimensional like convoy detail. done
- UI state is not restored correctly when returning from save.
- It doesn't respond properly to changes in the environment. That is, even if you create a new stop nearby, the data for that station will not be acquired unless you reopen the dialog.
This is because the update function is not created correctly. I think that it can be solved by imitating the standard code.



I will attach a symbol for tests and goods.pak
I don't speak English so English expressions may be incorrect. Please confirm the 30% translation reliability of google translate. (Even so, I chose it so that it would be correct when back-translated.)

I would be grateful if you could give me your opinions to make the freight transportation play more comfortable. (´・ω・`)らんらん♪
« Last Edit: June 18, 2020, 11:52:20 AM by Ranran »

Online wlindley

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2020, 05:27:27 PM »
Excellent! ...

  • "Built in" should probably also go on the Building Info tab?
  • For the number-in-transit values, could we have a tooltip?
« Last Edit: June 14, 2020, 06:12:17 PM by wlindley »

Offline Ranran

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2020, 12:02:57 PM »
For the number-in-transit values, could we have a tooltip?
The in transit symbol (the truck symbol) has translatable text.
It may be better to describe the meaning of orange and red there through translation.
Orange means the order is suspended. Red means that both orders (shipping) and transportation are stopped.
Is this an answer to your question?
Is there anything you don't understand about in-transit "number"?

Offline jamespetts

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2020, 04:39:02 PM »
This is excellent - thank you for your work on this. The industry dialogues are much easier to use and understand now. This is a splendid contribution.
Some specific comments, in no particular order, follow.
  • I do hope to overhaul a number of things relating to industry production/consumption at some point, but this will be part of the work on town growth. The current boost system may be modified or replaced at the same time.
  • The tooltips on the icons are a good idea, but I find that the mouse cursor hides the leftmost portion of these. I suggest moving the tooltip further right.
  • The text "Building Info." should not have a capital "i" for "info", being instead "Building info.".
  • The window size reduction with the down arrow is useful.
  • I like the ability to navigate to other industries' dialogues with a single click.
  • As to max in transit, I am going to have to review how this works as a result of the difficulties that players have been reporting making industry profitable on the Bridgewater-Brunel server. I have been holding off doing that as you advised waiting for this patch to be completed first, so perhaps we should keep this as it is for now, but consider changing it if and when I amend how this system works. Ranran - should I wait until this patch is finalised, or should my investigation of industry start now using this unfinished patch as the basis for experimentations so that my work on industry and your work on the UI can be done together?
  • The lead time display is very helpful. Perhaps it would be clearer if we re-used the clock symbol next to it, and then gave that symbol a tooltip explaining that the time is the lead time?
  • I agree with W. Lindley that "built in" should go into "Building info.", as this is low importance information.
Thank you again for your work on this - it is much appreciated.

Offline Ranran

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2020, 04:42:37 PM »
Quote
The current boost system may be modified or replaced at the same time.
I plan to make changes to the factory list. I think currently in exntended, the display regarding boost seems to have a low display priority.
So, for example, we can separate the status bar from one status display into three status displays: operating status, input storage, output storage.
It is also possible to distinguish between primary industry and consumer industry by the difference in input/output. (There is no output in the consumer industry.)
I think useful information such as factory occupancy rate and demand (in-transit vs needed).
So I was wondering if it would be better to reduce the boost symbols or move backwards for these more prioritized items.
Will these values change in future plans? I mean, is there a likelihood of a change in importance?



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The tooltips on the icons are a good idea, but I find that the mouse cursor hides the leftmost portion of these. I suggest moving the tooltip further right.
The text "Building Info." should not have a capital "i" for "info", being instead "Building info.".
Thank you for pointing out. done.


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The window size reduction with the down arrow is useful.
I could implement it except determine the key (have not pushed yet), but the down arrow seems to be fixed in the system for scrolling the map.
I believe the combination of dialog minimization and tabbing can be used to improve the UI in other dialogs as well.


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The lead time display is very helpful. Perhaps it would be clearer if we re-used the clock symbol next to it, and then gave that symbol a tooltip explaining that the time is the lead time?
I reused the symbol that imitated a stopwatch that I made to display "travel time" in the station detail dialog.
By the way, I also make an hourglass symbol to represent the waiting time. There is also a regular watch made in reserve.
This can be freely designed with pakset, so you can draw whatever you like.
And I changed the layout a little along with the addition of symbols.


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I have been holding off doing that as you advised waiting for this patch to be completed first, so perhaps we should keep this as it is for now, but consider changing it if and when I amend how this system works.
of course. This patch is one of the suggestions for improvement, and it is a mockup for verifying issues and usability and making further improvements.


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Ranran - should I wait until this patch is finalised, or should my investigation of industry start now using this unfinished patch as the basis for experimentations so that my work on industry and your work on the UI can be done together?
I think that you can use it for researching and changing the industry without any problems. I also think that it will be possible to discover GUI problems and request changes.
There are still imperfections to incorporating into the master branch, as I explained before.
I am a little unsure of my understanding of English, but is this an answer to your question?

EDIT:
I've attached a lead time symbol pak file for testing to this post.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2020, 04:58:37 PM by Ranran »

Offline jamespetts

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2020, 05:56:44 PM »
Thank you for this. I will re-test when I have time.

Incidentally, it would help me if you could upload the source files for the symbols to a branch of the pakset: it is easier for me to test this way than manually copying .pak files.

As to the industry features, I think that it may be best if I seek to investigate and develop solutions to the balance issues on this branch so that you can adapt the UI to these changes as I implement them and so that both sets of changes can be integrated into the master branch at the same time.

Offline Ranran

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2020, 05:20:31 AM »
I have pushed images and dat for pakset to this branch.
https://github.com/Ranran-the-JuicyPork/simutrans-pak128.britain/tree/new_symbols

Also note that the close the tab shortcut key is currently registered as the ↓ key as you wish and conflicts with the main screen scroll.

Offline Ranran

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2020, 01:00:40 PM »
I found that the duplication of up/down key and map scroll also occurred in the pull down list.
Do you think separating the arrow key and map scroll is a reasonable solution?

Offline jamespetts

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2020, 01:09:10 PM »
I found that the duplication of up/down key and map scroll also occurred in the pull down list.
Do you think separating the arrow key and map scroll is a reasonable solution?

Yes, this does seem sensible. I suggest keeping the arrow keys for scrolling and so re-assigning the pull-down keys.

Offline Ranran

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2020, 11:12:00 AM »
I tried adding the tab control function with the arrow keys.
The mouse cursor remains in the center of the screen and the arrow keys are used to control the tabs.


The Down key acts as opening the active tab and the Up key acts as closing the tab. (That is, it's the opposite of what James wanted.)

EDIT:
The up and down key conflicts were a bug, so we might need to rethink keyboard operation.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2020, 02:37:51 PM by Ranran »

Offline Ranran

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2020, 12:22:48 PM »
I was curious about what I reported in this thread so I did some research. The lead time was a very odd number.
After several months of fast-forwarding, it stabilized at 89 hours and a half.
Contrary to my expectations, it seems that there are cases where a lot of products can be shipped from near by competing and shipping from a long distance. This experiment initially used a normal build and then used the factory GUI patch build for verification to verify the data.
I haven't changed with any of the formulas in that patch, and check at the actual transits and max transits, the numbers displayed seem to be correct.
Compared with the convoy trip time, it shows a very long lead time.

James, is this at first glance what you expected?
This can be confirmed with this saved game.
The display may be incorrect, but I would appreciate it if you can confirm this when checking the GUI.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 12:41:00 PM by Ranran »

Offline TheRoadmaster1996

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2020, 03:13:40 PM »
I think that looks really good and helpful to see what's going into the factories and what is not. Do you mind if I incorporate it into my Pak256.America?

Offline Ranran

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2020, 06:03:48 PM »
Do you mind if I incorporate it into my Pak256.America?
Are you talking about the goods category symbol or the symbols for the GUI?
Feel free to use them. dat and png are here:
https://github.com/Ranran-the-JuicyPork/simutrans-pak128.britain/tree/new_symbols/gui/gui64
They can also be freely designed with pakset. Please refer to them for the description method of dat.
They will not actually be available in the game until they are included in the master branch. (The goods category symbol is already available.)

Offline TheRoadmaster1996

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #30 on: June 30, 2020, 06:15:52 PM »
Thank you!

Offline Ranran

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2020, 03:25:10 PM »
It was found that the lead time takes into account the transfer time between the station and the factory.

Additional experiments of observe lead time:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-_DNk1uHshxWtn6di9oeBwYiM7qBuZuF/view?usp=sharing
I think that it is still unnaturally long even if the above is taken into consideration.


Anyway, I think it will be a great advantage for players to carry cargo over long distances and carry it slowly. If you do not, you may not be able to carry it in the proper transport unit. Extending the lead time also facilitates transportation from nearby. Also, I think it's more advantageous for the player to move 3 tiles away from the station next to the factory.
Anyway, shipping only from the vicinity is very risky in some industries. The longest lead time is recorded, so adding a distant connection also benefits another connection that ships from near.
Please note that you cannot ship more than your cargo capacity. The staging post is not suitable for storing a lot of cargo. (´・ω・`)

EDIT:
Placing a relay point on the way so that it can be observed at some places on the server also contributes to a large increase in lead time.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 03:49:57 PM by Ranran »

Offline TheRoadmaster1996

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2020, 05:29:38 PM »
Here in the U.S., we have locomotives that can carry a lot of cargo across country, take Union Pacific, they have trains that are hundreds of cars long and they transport that cargo across the vastness of the West.

Offline Ranran

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #33 on: July 02, 2020, 05:54:16 PM »


Considering the layout with 256size pakset, I think it's better to change the text box for name like this.


Compare it with the length of the name that fits in the Title bar. I think this length is enough for 128px size pakset.
How do you think?

Sadly there is still a lot of dead space... This is only a small rebellion. (´・ω・`)

EDIT:
In the image above, I changed the minimum width calculation and expanded the width with 256px pakset.

It is totally broken in the current version...


But this extension now creates a lot of dead space in the tab below...  ::'(
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 06:25:25 PM by Ranran »

Offline TheRoadmaster1996

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Re: Visualized factory storage
« Reply #34 on: July 02, 2020, 08:38:29 PM »
But rebellions are built on hope right? And hope is a powerful ally to have. *Star Wars theme plays.*