Started by Ranran(retired), May 31, 2020, 08:45:52 AM
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Quote from: Freahk on May 31, 2020, 02:59:56 PMThose anomalies are quite disruptive to consider a slight modification of the current system:It might be a solution to not consider those overcrowding related additional transfer times when calculating the best route, but to apply these after a route was found and before judging if the pasenger would prefer to walk or to take the private car instead.
Quote...I do believe the only proxy in here might be current overcrowding as a measure for something like service quality.There might be a better system to measure such but in any case, I don't think people do care about overcrowding when calculating routes, as that information is simply not available to them.Until we might get a better measure for service quality, using overcrowding as such might be a good approximation.If this is experienced to cause any kind of anomalies, considerations of a better system can still be done.In any case, it should be by-far more realistic than those Barbarian Invasions.
Quote from: Freahk on May 31, 2020, 04:48:13 PMIt's not even a general service quality measure but a route specific service quality measure based on the current situations.It's exactly the same as the current system apart from applying overcrowding related waiting times after selecting a specific route, instead of applying these when calculating shortest routes.The only change that should be required in backgorund calculations of shortest routes is not applying these aditional waiting times there. The only change that should be required in passengers route search within the precalculated network is applying current waiting times to the selected route to determine if that specific route is currently better than taking any other mode of transport.Service frequencies were not mentioned in any way nor do they differ in any way.
QuoteThe only competition that might actually be negatively affected is a player whose network got a very good service in theory but a very bad reputation (that means much overcrowding) will still either attract those passengers or get passengers to use their private car.
Quote from: jamespetts on May 31, 2020, 05:02:49 PMThe only data that the routing system gives is (1) the total journey time (a mix of travelling and waiting); and (2) the next transfer.
Quote from: jamespetts on May 31, 2020, 05:02:49 PMThe trouble with this is that it leads to anomalies
Quote from: Freahk on May 31, 2020, 05:24:43 PMThe next transfer, where again a next transfer can be obtained until the destination is reached, which is the whole route, of which overcrowding related waiting times need to be summed up and added to pre-calculated time of that route.
QuoteWhich is the price to get rid of a much worse anomaly without introducing some likely extremely complex overhaul of that system.
QuoteAs pointed out already, waiting times are not meant to be handled differently in any way.10 minutes journey time + 6 hour frequency results in 3:1012 minutes journey time + 15 hour frequency results in 0:27Passengers will not always prefer the first route, in fact they will never even attempt to use it (except for passenger "stealing" if both lines serve the exact same stops)
QuoteAlthough it is difficult to be sure of what is occurring without a precise reproduction case of the phenomenon from its inception, I believe that it is likely that this is an instance of a known phenomenon that is an unavoidable side-effect of necessary features.
Quote from: Ranran on June 01, 2020, 10:24:11 AMThat way the passengers mass disturbs my network.
Quote from: Freahk on June 01, 2020, 11:37:48 AMThat's exactly the reason why I consider this issuue to be much worse than passengers not choosing a generally worse route, that is actually currently better due to congestion.The first cannot be handled at all by players and will disrupt networks.The second is a little unfortunate, but can be handled by players and it's roughly the behavior of real-world people before the digital age anyway.In the digital age, there seems to be an increasing amount of crowding and delay prediction systems, based on live data and guesses, although I do not think this is too relevant to simutrans.
Quote from: jamespetts on June 01, 2020, 10:58:12 AMThe only stop that I can see being crowded in Pondton is South East Gate no. 2 with 317 passengers all heading to St. James Milham Central port