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Author Topic: Optimization of road choose sign  (Read 496 times)

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Offline Ranran

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Optimization of road choose sign
« on: July 02, 2020, 08:58:16 AM »
Hi there. A suggestion for improvement.
Currently the choose sign on the road is not very useful except at the terminal end.
What I mean is a bus stop along the way that goes through in the same direction.
For example, there should be 6 buses at 3 parallel bus stops at the same time. Because the road has two lanes on one tile and two cars can be parked in the opposite direction.
However, if you use the choose sign, you will only allow 3 buses to stop at the same time. That is, using the choose sign will reduce the capacity by half!

For example, if you schedule three color-coded buses to stop on different platforms, you should be able to stop up to six at the same time.

As such, the utility value of this feature is significantly reduced. Also, since players do not expect such behavior, it may cause unexpected traffic congestion.
Because the car that exceeds half of the original waits in front of the choose sign as you can see in the image. This traffic jam is clearly caused by a stupid choose sign.

Isn't it possible to have different algorithms for roads to check occupancy by direction?

Offline prissi

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Re: Optimization of road choose sign
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2020, 05:02:09 AM »
Do you mean turning back and enter the bus stop from the wrong direction?

Stopping on both sides of a single way road is usuallz not happening in reality do to doors on the wrong side ...

Offline Vladki

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Re: Optimization of road choose sign
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2020, 07:11:16 AM »
I think it is that if the stop is occupied only by a bus in one direction, the choose sign will not let in a bus from the other side.

Offline Andarix

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Re: Optimization of road choose sign
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2020, 07:45:31 AM »
...
Stopping on both sides of a single way road is usuallz not happening in reality do to doors on the wrong side ...

I think set signals_on_left = 1 and drive_left = 1

Offline Ranran

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Re: Optimization of road choose sign
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2020, 08:29:39 AM »
Do you mean turning back and enter the bus stop from the wrong direction?
No, it's not a complicated movement like that, but a simple movement, just move forward (or not).
I mean, currently the choose sign imposes a limit of one vehicle per tile. It's worse than not having a choose sign if it's not a terminal end bus stop.


The three bus stop tiles are occupied by cars with blue orientation, so cars with red orientation are denied entry by the choose sign. However, this is possible when without using the choose sign, like a following image.

That is, the number of possible stops at this bus stop is halved by the choose sign. In other words, if you want to use the vacant bus stop by using choose sign, you need twice as many lanes as manually selecting lanes. It requires a lot of tiles and makes detours.
In addition, it is possible to line up in front of the choose sign due to the restricted access to the intersection.
So, I think that a different algorithm is needed for roads than when the occupancy of tiles is not related to the direction like railroad tracks.



Quote
Stopping on both sides of a single way road is usuallz not happening in reality do to doors on the wrong side ...
I agree. My request above does not violate that principle.
I had this same thoughts and that's why I think the parallel stopping mode (*"parallel stop" here means abreast, not the original meaning) of overtaking patch is not realistic and I have pointed so.
However, if there are 2 tiles in length and the length of the bus is less than 1 tile, I think it would be okay for 2 buses to stop vertically (parallel stop). It is a sight seen at many large bus stops in the real world. But currently it is not allowed as it is combined and considered as one platform in simutrans.
It would be great if the choose sign on the road made it possible.
The player will then lengthen the big bus stop, but will reduce wasted intersections as a result.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2020, 08:40:57 AM by Ranran »

Offline prissi

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Re: Optimization of road choose sign
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2020, 02:55:25 PM »
Ok, now I understood your request. But it is difficult, since it could happen that the bus has a terminal there and returns and would need the full tile. Allowing to reserve two would mean more futile route search for cars, limited to through stops,

Online Freahk

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Re: Optimization of road choose sign
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2020, 03:30:16 PM »
Ok, now I understood your request. But it is difficult, since it could happen that the bus has a terminal there and returns and would need the full tile
Actually vehicles reversing on through-stops without choose signs have the same issue, they will simply reverse and stack up to another vehicle on that tile if I remember correctly, so it is indeed an issue that might generally need to be resolved, but I don't see why this issue should prevent choose signs from "correctly" considering the direction of roads.

Offline Ranran

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Re: Optimization of road choose sign
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2020, 04:07:37 PM »
Yes, if a road convoy reverse at the terminal, the convoy will move to the opposite lane, but immediately after that the next convoy will be able to move there.
And if the first convoy does not move from there, it can overlap when the next convoy reverses.
Since this is already happening, no one will be concerned about overlapping vehicles as a result of reversing due to road choose sign.

I felt that the road choose sign was not useful except for terminal. Players have to devise this issue themselves.
Therefore, I wanted this contradiction to be resolved in a way that is convenient for the player.