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Change the Station "type" display to the number of access each player lines

Started by Ranran(Hibernating), July 02, 2020, 01:03:53 PM

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Ranran(Hibernating)

I brought in a discussion seed from Japan today as well. (´・ω・`)
It's common sense for simutrans players to install cheap postboxes on the road next to a railway station and add postal attributes to the station to gain attributes, program that isn't a clever AI and doesn't have such code doesn't detect such things, so they're tainted with false indications and the player annoys himself.
In addition this is a bit inaccurate. For example, even if a staging post with a freight attribute is installed on the road, the truck symbol will not be displayed.
The truck symbol will not be attached even if an extension building with cargo properties is adjacent to it. Only cargo bay(for terminal end road) adds truck symbols.
I wonder if such a display is really useful. However, at the moment, I think nobody really cares about that display.

Because of these inaccuracies, I suggest quitting it and changing to a verdict by registration line(convoy), and displaying that number and player color.

This is an indicator of how active the station is and whether or not it has to change trains. Even in the real world, it is common for station guides to provide information about transfers there. A station that connects with many lines, it's like a terminal, and I think it's useful to be clear.The connection with other players becomes clear. It may also be easier to notice the movements of other players.
It also does not show unused post boxes for camouflage. Players do not recognize a station that has a postbox normally placed for camouflage as a station with a connection to the road.
The design is a mockup. lineless convoy is a white background square.


To tell the truth, (for GUI) the display of these symbols complicates the code by intertwining waytype, linetype, and stationtype. I think it will be simpler if you use linetype or schedule type. But you may need to add code to determine the difference between a truck and a bus.

enum schedule_type {
schedule = 0, truck_schedule = 1, train_schedule = 2, ship_schedule = 3, airplane_schedule = 4, monorail_schedule = 5, tram_schedule = 6, maglev_schedule = 7, narrowgauge_schedule = 8,
};
enum linetype { line = 0, truckline = 1, trainline = 2, shipline = 3, airline = 4, monorailline=5, tramline=6, maglevline=7, narrowgaugeline=8, MAX_LINE_TYPE};

I am wondering if, for example, these make sense to be registered separately.
Regarding the station list, the filter function must be updated along with this, but as I explained, the filter is currently a bit inaccurate. Especially the judgment of loading bay.
It ignores staging posts (in britain-EX), then is it really useful option?

I would appreciate if you could give us your opinions on these.

EDIT:
About the lineless convoy:
I basically register all convoy to line. Because it is easy to manage using linemanagement dialog. So to me lineless convoy is like a lost child. I'm not currently trying to find a lost child, but this helps me find the lost child.
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jamespetts

This is very interesting - thank you for your work on this. On the face of it, this does seem like it will be a very useful feature, although I worry that the display might be a little cluttered; but perhaps that worry is unnecessary. I should be grateful for anyone else's feedback on this.

Two queries in the meantime: is the intention to remove the existing symbols? That would require some further consideration and feedback, I think. Secondly, can I clarify what you mean with respect to assigning convoys to lines? Is this just for the display, or do you imagine actually abolishing lineless convoys?
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Ranran(Hibernating)

Quoteis the intention to remove the existing symbols? That would require some further consideration and feedback, I think.
About the first request, I'm sorry I may not understand your request correctly. I didn't "remove" the symbol, I changed the method of determination.
That is, currently the symbol represents the waytype of the station facility. But it has ambiguity as explained.
My suggestion is to change the waytype of the line that uses the station. Then adding the display of the number of lines using that station.


QuoteSecondly, can I clarify what you mean with respect to assigning convoys to lines? Is this just for the display, or do you imagine actually abolishing lineless convoys?
It just explained my play style. Currently, the number of lines and the number of lineless convoys must be checked in the station details dialog, and it is a little troublesome to get that information. But I just wanted to explain that player will be able to see that there is a lineless convoy in the station list. It helps me discover lineless convoy.

It is easy to find the convoy registered in lines. There is a line management dialog. On the other hand, searching for a lineless convoy is a bit of a hassle. When searching for lineless from the convoy list, the convoy in the depot will also be displayed. Because it is not registered in lines either.
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Sirius

Quote from: jamespetts on July 22, 2020, 12:27:27 AMalthough I worry that the display might be a little cluttered
I think so too, it's kind of cluttered. On the other hand it's useful information, so I guess it's fine.



jamespetts

Quote from: Ranran on July 22, 2020, 01:06:51 AM
About the first request, I'm sorry I may not understand your request correctly. I didn't "remove" the symbol, I changed the method of determination.
That is, currently the symbol represents the waytype of the station facility. But it has ambiguity as explained.
My suggestion is to change the waytype of the line that uses the station. Then adding the display of the number of lines using that station.

Thank you for clarifying - that is helpful. It would help me to have feedback from players on this - how useful is the current ability to see in the line manager what kinds of vehicles can be served by the various stops on each line's schedules?

QuoteIt just explained my play style. Currently, the number of lines and the number of lineless convoys must be checked in the station details dialog, and it is a little troublesome to get that information. But I just wanted to explain that player will be able to see that there is a lineless convoy in the station list. It helps me discover lineless convoy.

It is easy to find the convoy registered in lines. There is a line management dialog. On the other hand, searching for a lineless convoy is a bit of a hassle. When searching for lineless from the convoy list, the convoy in the depot will also be displayed. Because it is not registered in lines either.

I see, that is helpful - thank you.
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Sirius

Quote from: jamespetts on July 22, 2020, 08:43:01 PMhow useful is the current ability to see in the line manager what kinds of vehicles can be served by the various stops on each line's schedules
Not pretty useful imho, but might be my personal play style.

Vladki

Quote from: jamespetts on July 22, 2020, 08:43:01 PMhow useful is the current ability to see in the line manager what kinds of vehicles can be served by the various stops on each line's schedules?
I think it is useful to see the capability of stop, even if it is not used. Perhaps an owner colored number 0 could be shown to keep the display consistent?

Ranran(Hibernating)

Quote from: jamespetts on July 22, 2020, 08:43:01 PMhow useful is the current ability to see in the line manager what kinds of vehicles can be served by the various stops on each line's schedules?
It may depend on the times and pakset. For example, in the britain pak's 1750's, you can attach a staging post to the dock to give it all the cargo attributes or to expand the coverage of the dock. However, this is done to give the cargo attribute to the dock or expand its coverage rather than to operate the carriage, and this confuses its display, but I think no one cares about it. It looks like it has a bus stop even though the player is only going to run the ship.

Quote from: Vladki on July 22, 2020, 09:47:15 PMPerhaps an owner colored number 0 could be shown to keep the display consistent?
Certainly I think it makes sense. But the issue is that the display of the unused ones increases the total display amount.
A lot of meaningless displays may be added by the actions described above.
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jamespetts

I am not convinced by the idea of having a display of 0 - this would, I think, clutter the display excessively.
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Sirius

I guess the 0 display was only meant for types that could be served given the current stop, but aren't.
Practically that means an additional display 0 road vehicles on some stops.
I don't think this would clutter the display a lot more.

On the other hand, I do not think we need that 0 display either. If I want to serve a stop, I do usually look at it viually rather than searching a long list that does not offer any kind of local attribution, well apart from the name.
If I really wanted to search for stops that can be used by a specific type of transport in that list, I can still filter the list by type and I would always prefer doing so over manually searching for stops of a specific type in the list.

So in my opinion either of these two options is fine.

Ranran(Hibernating)

Quote from: jamespetts on July 22, 2020, 10:45:29 PMthis would, I think, clutter the display excessively.
Displaying the waytype symbol is sufficient, so I don't think it is necessary to display "0".
However, considering that the maximum number of wytype * 16 player lines is displayed, I think that there is not much advantage in displaying unused waytypes.
(´・ω・`)シミュトランスのアップデート履歴(日本語) (※更新停止中)
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