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Author Topic: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex  (Read 2048 times)

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Offline jonbridg

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Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« on: July 13, 2020, 07:28:13 PM »

East Coast Main Line scene: A Hull Trains "Paragon" hurries north with a service to Beverley past an LNER "Azuma" bound for King's Cross.

Hi all, the purpose of this topic should be self-explanatory! I'll be posting my updates in here from now on (and they might not just be vehicles...)

PS: yes, the image is from an alternate universe where LNER has 10-car Azumas and the ECML has TVM signalling  :o

EDIT 24/07/20:
dat/png: https://github.com/jonbridg/simutrans-pak128.britain
.blends : https://github.com/jonbridg/Pak128.britain-blends

To Be Merged                 Except where stated, new English translations have been added.
dat+png+blends BR Class 222
simuconf   9 new livery definitions, etc.
simuconf   East Coast Trains (FirstGroup) livery definition missed from the above commit
dat+png   BR Class 68 (TPE livery) (no new translations)
dat+png   BR Mark5a coaches
dat+png   BR Class 397
dat+png BR 220 + 221
Blends    BR 220 Cross Country
dat Class 222 update

« Last Edit: August 08, 2020, 10:15:33 PM by jonbridg »

Offline KneeOn

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2020, 09:57:44 PM »
I love this, I will be following with interest.

Pak128.Britain has such a great group of developers but unfortunately they're also involved with extended development.

I do think the design principles set out work well, your train fits right in from the screenshot. I'm very curious what other plans you've got.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2020, 10:57:26 PM »
Thank you for this: this does look very interesting. Apologies for not having had the chance to look into these things recently - I have been somewhat preoccupied. We definitely do need some more modern trains, however, as I believe that we are only up to date to circa 2016, when the last round of modern trains were produced, so this is most helpful.

Offline jonbridg

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2020, 11:49:31 PM »
Thanks both, I appreciate it. Yes, it's a fun time to be modelling with so much new rolling stock on order and I'm indebted to the previous pak developers for drawing so many of the newest designs, often before they'd even been built! Only the Stadler FLIRTS stand out as needing substantial work, I think the rest can be modelled fairly easily from existing stock.



Another new livery for the pak: TPE. It still needs adjustment. This livery is an experiment, partly using a UV map and texture painted within Blender itself, which I think could make adding new liveries (particularly the more intricate modern ones) a bit easier.

Offline thegamer7893

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2020, 03:31:52 PM »

East Coast Main Line scene: A Hull Trains "Paragon" hurries north with a service to Beverley past an LNER "Azuma" bound for King's Cross.

Hi all, the purpose of this topic should be self-explanatory! I'll be posting my updates in here from now on (and they might not just be vehicles...)

PS: yes, the image is from an alternate universe where LNER has 10-car Azumas and the ECML has TVM signalling  :o

Hull Trains Class 802's have small kitchens at the London end of each set

Offline jonbridg

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2020, 09:27:11 PM »
Thanks, yes, I forgot to blank out the end windows when I copied the rear unit. Sorted!

Offline jonbridg

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2020, 09:01:34 PM »
Still working away at TPE:


BR Class 397, or "Nova 2" in marketing language. The lighting seems to be off. I'm having some trouble with spacing between the carriages; does anyone one know if the .dat vehicle length only supports integers? I've the correct length value (12.6) and rounded-up (13) and can't see much difference. I know it's based on the number of pixels so suspect my query is true... 

Offline Ranran

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2020, 09:37:16 PM »
does anyone one know if the .dat vehicle length only supports integers?
Yes, it doesn't make sense to write decimals.

Offline thegamer7893

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2020, 06:40:17 PM »
Nice work pal, as I said this pakset has a HUGE gap in rail vehicles as there are no new trains after 2016 (apart from the IET fleet)

Offline jonbridg

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2020, 01:26:15 AM »


TransPennine Express' 'Nova' fleets, complete! From left to right:
Class 800/802 (Nova 1) - may be formed as allowed for Class 800 now.
Class 397 (Nova 2) - fixed 5-car unit, but two or more units can be coupled if required.
Mk5a push-pull set (Nova 3) - in reality a fixed 5-car set, but I've allowed extra standard-class carriages to be added as required. However, like the prototype all trains require a First Open and Driving Trailer, since only these have buffers.

Let me know what you think - the colors are a little darker now, hopefully not too much?


Offline jamespetts

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2020, 12:48:11 AM »
These are looking very good - thank you for your work on this. Modern trains are definitely a welcome addition. Your work on new Blender techniques is especially interesting.

Incidentally, you might want to look into whether to add retirement dates to existing trains which were the latest technology in 2016 but which have now been superseded by what you are now adding.

Offline jonbridg

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2020, 06:59:29 PM »


A busy scene somewhere in the North of England. A 2-car Class 195 trundles over the mainline as a 4-car Class 331 with a stopping service makes ready to depart. Passing on the fast lines is a Class 319 on its way to Liverpool while in the depot a newly-delivered Class 769 undergoes tests in diesel mode.

On the subject of retirement dates, I'll add it to my list. As it happens I'll need to modify a number of .dats to accept new trains so it makes sense to take at the same time.
Below: one of these new trains has long been retired, and the other should have been years ago!



Ah, Pacers. The marmite of British Railways! In the cream and green of the West Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive is Class 141, the first production run of Pacers from 1984, so Pacer fans can have one a year earlier! You'd better be quick though, it becomes obsolete with the introduction of Class 142 in 1985. The class was retired in 1997.
Beside it is a Class 144, the only Pacer available in 3-car formation, in WYPTE red and cream. Driving cars will be available from 1985 and the middle car from 1987. The class is not due to be retired until the end of August 2020 thanks to an exemption from disability regulations to cover for late deliveries of Class 195 above, although many are now in store.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 07:19:08 PM by jonbridg »

Offline jamespetts

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2020, 08:09:12 PM »
Excellent!

Is there a Github repository where you are uploading these (and the .blends for them, in case anyone else needs to add more liveries, etc. in future)?
Apologies if you have mentioned this before and I have missed it.

Offline thegamer7893

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2020, 11:37:54 PM »


A busy scene somewhere in the North of England. A 2-car Class 195 trundles over the mainline as a 4-car Class 331 with a stopping service makes ready to depart. Passing on the fast lines is a Class 319 on its way to Liverpool while in the depot a newly-delivered Class 769 undergoes tests in diesel mode.

On the subject of retirement dates, I'll add it to my list. As it happens I'll need to modify a number of .dats to accept new trains so it makes sense to take at the same time.
Below: one of these new trains has long been retired, and the other should have been years ago!



Ah, Pacers. The marmite of British Railways! In the cream and green of the West Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive is Class 141, the first production run of Pacers from 1984, so Pacer fans can have one a year earlier! You'd better be quick though, it becomes obsolete with the introduction of Class 142 in 1985. The class was retired in 1997.
Beside it is a Class 144, the only Pacer available in 3-car formation, in WYPTE red and cream. Driving cars will be available from 1985 and the middle car from 1987. The class is not due to be retired until the end of August 2020 thanks to an exemption from disability regulations to cover for late deliveries of Class 195 above, although many are now in store.

Not gonna lie, the front of the Civity's could do with some form of improvement but otherwise its great that new trains are been added

Offline jonbridg

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2020, 01:09:08 PM »
Not gonna lie, the front of the Civity's could do with some form of improvement but otherwise its great that new trains are been added

Yeah, they're not the most attractive of trains, but I’m sure people will prefer them over Pacers.

Is there a Github repository where you are uploading these (and the .blends for them, in case anyone else needs to add more liveries, etc. in future)?
Apologies if you have mentioned this before and I have missed it.

Not yet, I hadn’t decided whether to upload everything en masse (as in I believe the maintainers of pak128.britain did?) or piecemeal as each vehicle is completed.

Progress on dat files has lagged behind so far (making models is much more fun) so for now, I’ll finish the Class 196 I’m working on and focus on completing the dat files, with a view to uploading everything at the end of the month. Thereafter I’ll aim to upload vehicles as I complete each Class, before moving onto the next.

I’ve added links to my repositories in the original post.

Offline thegamer7893

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2020, 02:15:04 PM »
Yeah, they're not the most attractive of trains, but I’m sure people will prefer them over Pacers.

Of course they are attractive trains. Its just that the cab ends have been poorly represented in-game



Note: image is not mine

Offline jonbridg

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2020, 03:16:04 PM »


I beg to differ, it's a truly magnificent representation and quite unequaled in its accuracy...

I'm kidding.

Thanks to the alpha channel, the buffers do rather blend into the background. I can try changing the colour to compensate but can't promise any radical changes at present.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2020, 09:29:20 PM »
Excellent, thank you for the clarification.

I suggest that piecemeal would be better than in a large batch, as it is easier to check each individual vehicle for errors in that system. The only reason that the original vehicles were uploaded as a large batch long ago was that they had been completed before it was decided to upload them to a repository at all.

Offline jonbridg

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2020, 04:32:03 PM »
In preparation for new vehicles I've been updating the livery definitions in simuconf and en.tab. These changes have now been pushed to my repo.

The figure in brackets is the number of liveries added with each scheme.

Added livery schemes for TransPennine, Wales & Borders (4),  Bristol & SW (Wessex Trains, metrobus), Caledonian Sleeper (Serco), Merseytravel (4), Essex Thameside (3, c2c), WCML Franchise (Avanti), Tyne & Wear (4) and Thameslink GN (5, includes wagn)

New livery definitions under existing schemes are LNER, East Coast Trains (2021), West Midlands Network, TfL Rail and Overground (2018 revision), and a name change for the London-Midland livery scheme in en.tab - to London & Midlands - to enable LNwR and Silverlink without starting a new livery scheme.

I’ve also corrected what looked like an error in the Lynton & Barnstaple livery: one entry carried the number of the livery scheme preceding it.

Offline thegamer7893

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2020, 09:50:23 PM »

Offline jamespetts

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2020, 10:25:56 AM »
In preparation for new vehicles I've been updating the livery definitions in simuconf and en.tab. These changes have now been pushed to my repo.

The figure in brackets is the number of liveries added with each scheme.

Added livery schemes for TransPennine, Wales & Borders (4),  Bristol & SW (Wessex Trains, metrobus), Caledonian Sleeper (Serco), Merseytravel (4), Essex Thameside (3, c2c), WCML Franchise (Avanti), Tyne & Wear (4) and Thameslink GN (5, includes wagn)

New livery definitions under existing schemes are LNER, East Coast Trains (2021), West Midlands Network, TfL Rail and Overground (2018 revision), and a name change for the London-Midland livery scheme in en.tab - to London & Midlands - to enable LNwR and Silverlink without starting a new livery scheme.

I’ve also corrected what looked like an error in the Lynton & Barnstaple livery: one entry carried the number of the livery scheme preceding it.

Excellent, thank you: now incorporated.

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2020, 06:48:34 PM »
OCD triggered xD


That depends on which side it is as the toilet will be on one with a passageway on the other in the centre carriage that doesn't have a pantograph - see image at https://www.communityraillancashire.co.uk/news/class-769-driver-training/ for the other side for example.

Offline thegamer7893

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2020, 07:08:14 PM »
That depends on which side it is as the toilet will be on one with a passageway on the other in the centre carriage that doesn't have a pantograph - see image at https://www.communityraillancashire.co.uk/news/class-769-driver-training/ for the other side for example.

As seen in the picture below, the toilet side is corrected marked on the class 319s non-motor coach whereas on the class 769 it is incorrectly marked (as they are both the same train with the class 769s being the dual-mode versions)


Offline kierongreen

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2020, 10:25:11 PM »
As seen in the picture below, the toilet side is corrected marked on the class 319s non-motor coach whereas on the class 769 it is incorrectly marked (as they are both the same train with the class 769s being the dual-mode versions)


Zooming in the N on the northern logos is at the wrong end of 'northern' on certain carriages also.... I wonder how many of these details would be picked up in-game, the overall impression of the new graphics is very nice I'd say!

Offline jonbridg

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2020, 11:12:02 PM »
The extra toilet window is indeed an error common to both Class 319/769 and has been corrected.



A class 196 in West Midlands Railway livery, fresh from the workshop. Like classes 195, 331 and 397, this is a CivityUK product from CAF. The very similar class 197 has been ordered by Transport for Wales but it's low priority until better info on it becomes available.

Kieron, well-spotted - I hoped no-one would notice that one! I mapped both sides of the vehicles with the same texture to save time. I'll take a look at re-mapping it when I'm finished with the dats.


Offline thegamer7893

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2020, 12:48:30 PM »


Brilliant work! Now hopefully we can start to fill in a massive gap in rail vehicles and make my gamesaves more enjoyable ;)

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2020, 03:43:31 PM »
Kieron, well-spotted - I hoped no-one would notice that one! I mapped both sides of the vehicles with the same texture to save time. I'll take a look at re-mapping it when I'm finished with the dats.
I'm sure if people look back at my original graphics plenty of similar errors would be found! Good work with all the new vehicles :)

Offline jamespetts

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2020, 09:52:25 PM »
The extra toilet window is indeed an error common to both Class 319/769 and has been corrected.



A class 196 in West Midlands Railway livery, fresh from the workshop. Like classes 195, 331 and 397, this is a CivityUK product from CAF. The very similar class 197 has been ordered by Transport for Wales but it's low priority until better info on it becomes available.

Kieron, well-spotted - I hoped no-one would notice that one! I mapped both sides of the vehicles with the same texture to save time. I'll take a look at re-mapping it when I'm finished with the dats.



Looking splendid! It is lovely to see new vehicles being produced.

Offline jonbridg

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2020, 12:47:34 AM »
Thanks, it's great to hear that people like what they see. I've put modelling on hold for now while I put my efforts into releasing the vehicles I've done so far. Class 800 will be first as they require least work.

On this subject, is there any need for Class 800/802 to have separate dats?  Until fuel range and bi-mode are implemented there's little difference between them in Simutrans at present.

I've been putting the dat files together with the help of Freakh and Vladki's useful explanations of tractive/brake force (and running costs, when I get around to it) from a short while ago and tested them against existing vehicles, which has raised a few interesting points.

I notice the power on some classes is lower than I'd expect. A search reveals this was a point raised by Vladki with regard to class 801, but I can't see why this wasn't implemented; was there a particular reason that might be pertinent to other vehicles? Similarly the Desiro UK units which have a rated power of 1000kw per motor coach in reality; 750kw in Simutrans. Was this to compensate for the tractive effort of 100kn per car? I've seen at least one article which quotes this figure (a Deutsche Bahn Class 460, I think), which suggests it is correct, although it does seem high in comparison to the recently re-calibrated Electrostars.

Offline Vladki

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2020, 07:05:55 AM »
I was about to fiddle with 801 (not only power but also constraints and vehicle selection (powered/unpowered and classes) but got distracted by acceleration patch.

Anyway I always put the power to the same values as found in specs. But then all electric vehicles have gear 0.75. It may not be exact but at least consistent with other vehicles. Diesel vehicles have gear 0.5 (James may explain more why he chose these).

As tractive effort is rarely found in specs, but maximum acceleration sometimes is. So I used acceleration, weight and gear to calculate tractive force, to get approximately same acceleration as in real world. I have omitted friction. I plan to recalculate some to see how big is the error and eventually fix the trams and emus I did recently.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2020, 12:54:12 PM »
jonbridg - you note that the power on some of the classes is lower than you would expect. The power is, wherever the data are available, based on the actual data for the vehicles in question. Have you found any instances where this is not so?

Offline Freahk

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2020, 02:05:10 PM »
Was this to compensate for the tractive effort of 100kn per car?
There are quite a lot vehicles with wrong technical data.
That's not for a specific purpose. If you notice such and feel confident to provide the correct data, including sources, this would be appreciated.
Some care needs to be taken as sometimes different sources are inconsistent. Especially in modern times, there seems to be an increasingly huge difference in between one-hour-power, permanent-power and short-time-power.

For example, a German BR class 462 (Siemens Desiro HC) has a short-time power of 6mW (750 kW per engine) but only 4 kW one-hour-power and 3290 kW permanent power.
The very high short-time power allows that train to accelerate its 4 cars to their maximum speed of 160 km/h quite quickly, but as it cannot run that power permanently, it's not good in climbing long slopes or pulling heavy trains.
Generally, it's a bad idea to compare different types of Desiros. Siemens simply called all of their local service trains "Desiro" for some time, though these differ quite a lot.

Same goes for any other train class. Even within the same train family, specs can be quite different (e.g. see German ICE4, which was originally ordedered in a 230, 249 and a 250 km/h version, whilst all these are technically quite identical and will get a software update (including all the complicated admission procedures) to run at 265 km/h.

Offline jonbridg

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2020, 04:39:16 PM »
Thanks for the replies. I'm sorry, it would've made more sense if I'd included sources the first time!
As regards Class 801 (paraphrased from another topic):

I have got to try the class 801 (800) and found some discrepancies. (and this old thread).
Diesel engine has correct power 700 kW, but electric has 4x 226 = 904 kW, according to http://www.hitachi.com/rev/pdf/2014/r2014_10_105.pdf

Power and weight is also here (for the whole train). Power agrees with the above.

https://web.archive.org/web/20181005071852/https://www.railengineer.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Table-1-Hitachi-800-802-orders-V3-Avenir.pdf
As regards Desiro UK:
There is a good deal of data on Class 350/1 here https://www.angeltrains.co.uk/Products-Services/Regional-Passenger-Trains/17
Data is also available on this site for 350/3/4 and 360.

class 380: http://www.railway-centre.com/class-380.html
class 444: https://sremg.org.uk/gallery/class444_01.html

My conclusions are that all 5 Desiro UK classes use 250kw-rated 1TB2016-0GB02 traction motors, and in the same configuration of 2 per powered bogie. This gives 4x250=1000kw per motor vehicle.

I have since found this article which includes data on power-at-rail and acceleration for some units:
https://web.archive.org/web/20111006082417/http://www.mobility.siemens.com/en/data/pdf/ts_tr/02_reference_brochure_trains.pdf

Compare the figures for 350/1 with those given by Angel Trains. Siemens quotes power-at-wheel of 1500kw (under DC) for the whole train, or 750kw per motor vehicle, which is the figure given in the dat file.

From my limited understanding (I haven’t got round to looking at the physics engine, and it’s been a while since I did A-level physics!) I would say that power-at-wheel = rated power * gear?

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2020, 06:12:35 PM »
Thank you for that; which of the data do you believe are incorrect? If you find any units with incorrect data, do feel free to correct them, providing that the corrections are themselves based on reliable sources.

As to "gear", this is unfortunate terminology and a remanent of Simutrans Standard of old; all that it does is multiply the power and tractive force by the factor. The English translation texts have this as "power output ratio" to make it clear that this has nothing to do with gearing. It is used to allow the use of real data (which do not take into account transmission losses) to calibrate the physics of powered vehicles where the engine is separate from the vehicle itself (i.e., everything other than steam locomotives) and where the data are all for the engine power as distinct from the locomotive power, as they inevitably are.

Offline jonbridg

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #34 on: July 30, 2020, 02:42:31 PM »
I'd like to increase the power of the Desiro UK units as I believe the figure used in the dat file is for power-at-rail and thus already accounts for losses that would otherwise be applied using 'gear'; but it's not high priority. It was something I picked up on whilst testing the electric Civity units, whose specifications I initially adapted from Class 380 (which has a similar quoted max. acceleration) until I found more reliable information.

With the new liveries for 801 requiring a dat update anyway I've increased the power to 904kw-per-motor-vehicle and converted the trailer composite to a motor composite, as there are no trailer composites in reality. I've also added a motor first for 9-car trains.

Vladki, what were your ideas on 800/801 constraints? If you like I could add them at the same time as the liveries.

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #35 on: July 30, 2020, 03:03:29 PM »
I'd like to increase the power of the Desiro UK units as I believe the figure used in the dat file is for power-at-rail and thus already accounts for losses that would otherwise be applied using 'gear'; but it's not high priority.

Interesting - may I ask what the source is for this?



Offline Vladki

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #36 on: July 30, 2020, 03:19:10 PM »
Vladki, what were your ideas on 800/801 constraints? If you like I could add them at the same time as the liveries.

Real formations according to wikipedia are:
5-car: DPTS-MS-MS-MC-DPTF
9-car: DPTS-MS-MS-TS-MS-TS-MC-MF-DPTF

But in simutrans we have:
name=BR-801Front  (DPTF)
name=BR-801MiddlePower  (MS)
name=BR-801MiddleTrailer  (TS)
name=BR-801MiddleComposite (non existent TC)
name=BR-801Rear (DPTS)

So we are missing MC (motor composite) and MF (motor first class), while TC (trailer composite) does not really exist (but probably could).
Also there is upgrade from TS to TC and back, which does not work properly, and should be removed.

I had two ideas about constrains. Flexible to allow any combination of motor and trailer cars, only forcing a motor car just next to front and rear cars, so that there is at least some power available...
More realistic: DPTF-(MF)-MC-MS/TS-MS-MS/TS-MS-DPTS
DPTF can be followed by MF or MC (or MS?)
MF must be followed by MC (or MS?)
MC can be followed by TS or MS
TS must be followed by MS
MS can be followed by TS, MS or DPTS

Here: http://www.hitachi.com/rev/pdf/2014/r2014_10_105.pdf is detailed seat plan of 5-car unit, so capacities can be checked and corrected if needed.

If you have sources for power-at-rail then you could set gear=100%, but add a comment with the source in the dat file. So that it is clear to anyone who looks at it later, that it is not a bug but a feature.

Offline Freahk

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2020, 03:30:22 PM »
If you have sources for power-at-rail then you could set gear=100%, but add a comment with the source in the dat file. So that it is clear to anyone who looks at it later, that it is not a bug but a feature.
I'd rather set the known engine power and adjust gear accordingly to result in the, in this case, also known power at rail. Feels more consistent to me, especially as the long-term objective should be to set the gear of all vehicles individually according to their actual loss factor.

Offline Vladki

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #38 on: July 30, 2020, 03:37:24 PM »
I'd rather set the known engine power and adjust gear accordingly to result in the, in this case, also known power at rail. Feels more consistent to me, especially as the long-term objective should be to set the gear of all vehicles individually according to their actual loss factor.
Of course, if we have both values that this is the ideal situation. I thought we have ONLY power-at-rail value.

Offline Freahk

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #39 on: July 30, 2020, 03:46:48 PM »
I'd use the quoted document with care.
I just had a more detailled look at it and it seems to mix up power at rail and installed traction power (engines maximum output)

As far as I know, the Velaro E has a total of 8800 kW engines installed, but the paper quotes that power as "Maximum power at wheel", so it is quite likely that further "powers at wheel" are actually the power of the installed engines.
In case of the Velaro E, the transmission losses are minimal due to the engine type, it's maybe 5% or even less, I once had a source about this and it was significiantly less than 20%, although I am not  sure about the exact number anymore.
Sorry for not putting the source here, I had posted those sources somewhere in the forums before, but I am too lazy to search for them now as it's not pretty relevant in this case anyway.

Just keep in mind, the quoted paper does not seem to be a pretty reliable source, as with any of such data collections, at least from my experience.
Those collections are nice to get started, but often unpreciese or even wrong in the details.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2020, 04:00:21 PM by Freahk »

Offline jonbridg

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #40 on: July 30, 2020, 07:40:43 PM »
Ok, this gives me some peace of mind as max output power is what I've used on vehicles I needed new data for.

Contrary to what I said earlier classes 8xx will not be released first while I add the constraints, so as TPE Class 68, Mark 5a coaches and Class 397 are ready to go I've pushed them instead.

Interesting - may I ask what the source is for this?
The definition I found for power-at-rail is here:
https://enacademic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/3181161
« Last Edit: July 30, 2020, 08:55:17 PM by jonbridg »

Offline jonbridg

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #41 on: August 03, 2020, 10:53:18 AM »
A summary of what I've been up to so far:

After much deliberation I have opted not to separate the 800 and 802 classes. My initial plan was to distinguish the 800 as cheaper-to-maintain, possibly with down-rated engines, and with restricted coupling constraints. This would be justified as the class was ordered to specifications laid down by the UK government.
802 on the other hand would be as Hitachi might present the product to a private customer, i.e. full-rated engines, and largely unrestricted constraints.
I tried this with separate vehicles, a number of common vehicles, and deleting liveries on vehicles that don't carry them in reality, but the effect in the depot window was confusing, particularly for new players. I also wanted to add new vehicles for variety and constraint purposes which resulted in a lot of duplication so, ultimately, I dropped the 800 side of the plan.
Proposed changes look like this:
Too speed: 200km/h (225 unrealistic in diesel mode)
Tractive effort: better than 65 (to reflect higher acceleration of 802, about 0.85m/s/s. Will be calculated using data published by Rail Performance Society and Eversholt Rail
New vehicles: front and rear motor standards  (constraint purposes), 18+58 composite (Hull spec) and Driving Trailer (compact; 10 extra seats, lesser catering. TPE/Hull spec)
All liveries will be supported.

I'll be ready to upload once the 68/397/Mk5a have been added to the pakset, to avoid a backlog for James Petts who is kindly merging the vehicles.
 

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #42 on: August 03, 2020, 11:21:52 AM »
Excellent, thank you for this.

Can I check whether there is anything waiting to be merged at present of your work? It would be helpful if this could be indicated on this thread in future so that I can keep a track of what is awaiting merger.

Thank you again.

Offline Freahk

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #43 on: August 03, 2020, 04:57:35 PM »
and deleting liveries on vehicles that don't carry them in reality
I do not think this matches the spirit of the pakset, which is "design vehicles according to what would be possible in the real-world rather than what was actually ordered"
There's always much room for interpretation in this statement.

To my interpretation, adding more liveries to train that didn't carry these might not be a priority, but existing ones are totally fine and shouldn't be deleted.

Offline jonbridg

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #44 on: August 03, 2020, 10:19:34 PM »
To my interpretation, adding more liveries to train that didn't carry these might not be a priority, but existing ones are totally fine and shouldn't be deleted.

I agree. The deletions were temporarily made to a few vehicles, and then, only liveries I have created. These have now been reversed anyway. You won't find a Motor First vehicle on any real TransPennine class 802, but you will in Simutrans!

For the same reason I haven't changed kierongreen/TheHood's Virgin livery for Class 801, which is based on an early livery design that was not used in the real-world. A different Virgin livery was later applied to Class 800 and I have added this, but I don't know if it was ever used for Class 801.

Can I check whether there is anything waiting to be merged at present of your work? It would be helpful if this could be indicated on this thread in future so that I can keep a track of what is awaiting merger.

Of course, I've added a To Be Merged list in the original post. I haven't uploaded the .blends yet as I want to tidy them up before public release: the livery is packed within the .blends as a .png image, which is 'UV' mapped to the mesh using a material texture. My hope is that new liveries can be created using a 2D graphics program (which many more people seem to be familiar with) such as Photoshop, and Blender only used for final tweaking and rendering. I will write a more in-depth post explaining how it works soon.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 10:29:44 PM by jonbridg »

Offline KneeOn

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #45 on: August 04, 2020, 04:30:21 AM »
These look fantastic and you've made serious progress in a very short space of time. That's commendable!

For what it's worth, I think keeping the various 80x as one unit until features directly relating to these come in to effect is the best way forward and agree with your decisions.

Keep the work up!

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #46 on: August 07, 2020, 12:36:22 PM »
Thank you for this, and apologies for not having had a chance to look into this until now.

Unfortunately, there is a compile error:

Code: [Select]
ERROR: image_writer_t:  cannot open trains/./carriages/br-mk5a-fo-tpe_S.png

I suspect that you may have mistakenly left some of the image files out of the commit. I should be grateful if you could look into this so that I can test and integrate this.

Thank you very much for your work on this - this does look good.

Offline jonbridg

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #47 on: August 07, 2020, 10:45:36 PM »
Bother. I'm sorry, I copied the images to the 'railcar' folder instead of 'carriages'. I'll see if I can move them tomorrow.

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #48 on: August 07, 2020, 11:02:20 PM »
Bother. I'm sorry, I copied the images to the 'railcar' folder instead of 'carriages'. I'll see if I can move them tomorrow.

Splendid, thank you.

Offline jonbridg

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #49 on: August 08, 2020, 01:09:38 PM »
Ok, I've moved the images, does that solve the problem?

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #50 on: August 08, 2020, 06:32:24 PM »
Excellent, that does now work, thank you. Now incorporated.

Offline jonbridg

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #51 on: August 08, 2020, 09:22:53 PM »
Great, thanks very much.
Going away for a few days so there'll be no progress until I get back, and as the extra vehicles I've added to the 8xx classes allow me to add extra livery details (which I've yet to complete), the 8xx are still not complete to my satisfaction, I'm afraid.
However, I got bored whilst working on dat files and added a Cross Country livery to the Voyagers:



I've also re-rendered the Virgin variant with the new RGBA workflow. These are both ready to go.

Together with a dat file update to Class 222 (Not class 22 as it says in the commit, that's a misspelling) to make the constraints less restrictive, I've pushed these and updated the list in the original post.

There's no rush, of course, I'm happy for them to be added as and when time allows, this is my hobby after all :)
« Last Edit: August 08, 2020, 10:35:12 PM by jonbridg »

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Re: Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex
« Reply #52 on: Yesterday at 11:31:58 AM »
Excellent, thank you for that: now incorporated.

Bon voyage!