Started by Sirius, October 04, 2020, 04:23:24 PM
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Quote from: TheRoadmaster1996 on October 11, 2020, 02:35:46 PMWhat about gravity railways?
Quote from: freddyhayward on October 11, 2020, 12:15:18 PMThe distinction is that light rail tracks are more expensive and less capable than heavy rail tracks. It does not usually make economic sense to build grooved light rail tracks in the countryside, so let that be the constraint instead of an artificial one. I see it more fitting with the core philosophy of simutrans-extended.
Quote from: Flemmbrav on October 18, 2020, 12:19:06 AMSo the way i conclude that is that is that there really is no reason not to give the player the choice to use tram tracks on normal ground?
QuoteBringing tram track to the track menu is moree a choice of paksets and a thing that could be done already if the pakset maintainers would choos to.In fact we have been discussing that for pak192.comic.
Quote from: jamespetts on October 18, 2020, 01:03:43 PMAlso, since tram tracks are, by definition, tracks which are inset into something, almost always road, there is no reason for players to be able to build tram tracks on land into which there is nothing that they can be inserted. The only reason currently for allowing them to be built one tile off a road is because there is otherwise no way of connecting them to rail lines or tram depots, which cannot be built on roads.
Quote from: freddyhayward on October 18, 2020, 01:09:06 PMIf that's the case, there's no use allowing for them to be built one tile off a road since heavy rail tracks could simply be used.
Quote from: Ranran on October 18, 2020, 01:47:32 PMBuilding a tram depot can be a bit tedious.In addition, the maximum speed and cost of a normal railroad track are different.It is better to create a separate track for the tram, which has its own appearance and cost.
Quote from: jamespetts on October 18, 2020, 01:55:18 PMThe trouble is that heavy rail tracks cannot be built on roads - and tram depots also cannot be built on roads, so depots require these single tiles.
Quote from: Ranran on October 18, 2020, 02:24:04 PMAs James explains, if the tram tracks can't extend beyond the one-tile from the road, I don't think they can connect to regular tracks.It will be divided between the road and plain tiles. I think it is necessary to make a junction from the side at the railroad crossing.
Quote from: jamespetts on October 18, 2020, 01:03:43 PMI am not sure how that follows: tram tracks, as explained above, cannot be built on undeveloped ground. They are inset into an existing road bed (whether covered in asphalt or, as in the recent "green trams", turf). Thus, the economics of building them is different: they do not require their own trackbed because they re-use an existing road bed, but need that road bed adapting for their purposes. Track on open ground requires a separate trackbed. Thus, it does not make sense to allow players to build tram tracks, priced for inserting into an existing road bed, on unmade ground.
Quote from: Freahk on October 18, 2020, 03:25:37 PMI still fail to see any advantage in defining a green track, that has the exact same values and graphics as on-road variant
Quote from: prissi on October 19, 2020, 11:37:10 AMGreen track does not use the road bed, since their purpose is to ,ake unsealed area. Also in many German cities (epsecially is prussia) where there was the law that house has to built as far from the other road sie as they were hight (due to fire) and thyus the raod were very wide, the trams run in the middel in a dedicated geen bed. Still this were tram rails, totally unsiutable (and thus with different axle limits) for heavy rail.These green rails were actually more like turf railsways, no ballst, just some wide spaced sleepers in sand. Of course with time they sank and become quite uneven. I experience such tracks a lot in East Germanhy after the end of communism, Thus green raisl shoudl be rather cheaper, not less because you can do maintenance whenever you like, while opening a road is a major operation needign lots of permits from townhall etc.
Quote from: jamespetts on October 19, 2020, 05:33:50 PMAs to the menu issue, is there support for adding tram tracks to the rail menu in Pak128.Britain-Ex
Quote from: Freahk on October 19, 2020, 07:12:37 PMOrganising things by throwing them all on a huge heap of stuff seems contradictory to me.I want to improve usability, not trample on it!Throwing everything into the same menu does not organise anything. Sure, we don't need to open two menus, but it's simply even more chaotic.At least in my opinion.I'd rather welcome moving light-rail related stuff into the light-rail/tram menu.
QuoteA dat file parameter could be used to stick different rail types together, so we can simply drag tram tracks and that will build the selected tram track on roads as well as the related "usual" rail on plain ground.In pak192.comic, I expect both to be coded the exact same, except from one being tram track, the other one being "real" tracks, but other paks might for sure handle this differently.Is that an acceptable solution?
Quote from: jamespetts on October 25, 2020, 02:00:42 PMAs explained, this is problematic because there is no clear boundary between heavy and light rail, thus, there is no sensible way of deciding which should be in one menu and which in the other. It would be extremely confusing to players building a railway to find that, when they want to lay relatively cheap/light tracks (e.g. for a branch to a small goods terminal or for carriage sidings), they have to look in the tram menu.
Quote from: jamespetts on October 25, 2020, 02:00:42 PMI can see potential merit in this but also potential problems. first of all, we still need the first tile of dragging to remain a proper tram track to allow depots to be built (unless there is also a solution for building depots without needing to do this?).
Quote from: jamespetts on October 25, 2020, 02:00:42 PMSecondly, I can see potential problems with associations between rail and tram tracks needing to be different at different points in time
Quote from: jamespetts on October 25, 2020, 02:00:42 PMor players sometimes wanting to have choice over which rail track is associated with a tram track and preferring something other than the default, leading to confusion.
Quote from: jamespetts on October 25, 2020, 02:00:42 PMconnecting tram to rail lines in paksets that do not implement this