Started by Ranran(retired), March 17, 2020, 11:57:26 AM
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Quote from: Ranran on July 22, 2020, 05:31:12 PMWhat is the "possible acceleration"? Is it as understandable to the player as I thought so?
Quote from: Freahk on July 22, 2020, 05:08:34 PMAnd still it is more useful than the plain force or power values.
Quote from: jamespetts on July 22, 2020, 08:50:34 PMprobably the best alternative is to use the minimum of the maximum permissible and maximum possible speed for the convoy, irrespective of current way/signalling restrictions
QuoteIt is the acceleration possible at current speed, weight and slope.
Quoteand said nothing about braking distance.
QuoteA graph is the ideal way of doing this, but this is likely to be a great deal of work to make a good UI for this.
Quote from: Ranran on July 22, 2020, 10:56:11 PMWhy do you check such information with convoy detail? It's strange and can't be helped. What is it useful for? What is the value of the momentary acceleration?
Quote from: Ranran on July 22, 2020, 10:56:11 PMFor example, convoy info has a speedometer. Why are you trying to show it in the convoy detail instead of there?
Quote from: Ranran on July 22, 2020, 10:56:11 PMI just missed it as you do not answer about the m/s/s topic.
Quote from: Vladki on July 22, 2020, 09:56:27 PMWhy do you put it so deep that you say that information is important?
QuoteIt still has some value: when convoy goes uphill it may drop below zero. In such case it shows that the convoy is unable to climb that slope if it cannot gain some speed in advance.
QuoteAnd yes this is important for all waytypes.
QuoteI thought I said it already.
Quote from: Ranran on June 21, 2020, 12:07:25 PM10) Who cares about the actual starting acceleration? I think it's just geeks and mechanics. Do normal humans stick to the unit of m/s/s? But I don't know about foreign countries.Shinkansen runs at 360km/h. TGV runs at 320km/h. Yeah great.But do ordinary people care about these starting accelerations? And do they too stick to the units of m/s/s?Do they really think that it is easy to understand that the unit of m/s/s is used?Please note that my emphasis is on the public's point of view, not geek's aspirations.And for reason ８) and 9), if this display is really needed, it is advisable to make it selectable via the display settings option.
Quote from: jamespetts on January 02, 2020, 11:08:21 AMThis is an interesting patch; thank you. I should note that doing this in km/h/s is almost certainly far clearer to a player than doing it in m/s2, as the former measure is related to something that the player can readily understand (km/h), whereas m/s is not a normal way of thinking about the speed of transport vehicles.
QuoteI agree that 3 values for accel and brake distance are overkill.
Quote- always show the summary, even if the convoy has only one vehicle (before one-vehicle convoys did not show summary)
Quote from: Ranran on July 23, 2020, 12:46:40 AMGenerally, the value displayed in SPEC is the display at the time of capacity.
QuoteAlso, I should have pointed out that external influences are not specs.
QuoteQuote - always show the summary, even if the convoy has only one vehicle (before one-vehicle convoys did not show summary)And you are trying to show it even if there is only one vehicle in the convoy, but the top show the total of convoys. In other words, it is matched with the display at the bottom.If the convoy consists of one vehicle, the same content will be displayed TWICE (The order is different because you changed it.).
Quote - always show the summary, even if the convoy has only one vehicle (before one-vehicle convoys did not show summary)
QuoteYou insist on wanting to display acceleration for railway convoys, and thus sticking to displaying useless information, ignoring adverse effects on others.
QuoteSo arguing that it is not fit for the place, combined with multiple conflicts and conflicts and why it is not fit.
QuoteWhat is "the time of capacity"? I dont understand...
QuoteYes they are not specs, yet they are shown in specs tab: weight of cargo, friction (slope) - for each vehicle, and maybe something more.
QuoteAfter all, it's not right there. Because that's where the convoy spec is displayed.One vehicle of 55km/ was mixed in the vehicle of 100km/h. The convoy speed spec is 55km/h. It's a place to say that. That is the "convoy spec"."Allowed speed" is the content that should be displayed at the top.
QuoteSo it is not all static information anyway.
Quoteno it is not! E.g. the power and tracitve effort is multiplied by gear in convoy totals (on the top), but the original value (without gear) is in individual vehicle specs.
QuoteAcceleration and braking distance does not make sense for individual vehicles
QuoteWhatewer. I see that we two have a deep misunderstandig of each other.
QuoteMaybe it is just because none of us is native english speaker and so we cannot express well enough for the other to understand.
QuoteI give up. Please take my patch, keep the acceleration calculation in convoy.cc/convoy.h, and do whatever you want with the GUI. Show the information wherever you want in whatever way you desire. I'm not that good in GUI coding, so I leave it to you... Howg!
Quote from: Ranran on July 26, 2020, 09:18:12 PMIt is one of the ones inherited from the standard. In my opinion, I don't think the display is useful. It only gives a value like how the vehicle is leaning. I don't know what unit this is, and because it doesn't have units, it's hard for players to understand what it is, and it's inconsistent with other values. Perhaps the value that the player does not show much interest.
Quote from: Ranran on July 26, 2020, 09:18:12 PMI think it is enough. However, I don't think there is a problem with the additional display that is grouped on the same line. Because it supplements the information without much inconvenience. That's not what you are doing.
weight: 13.0 t (10.0 t)
weight: 13.0 t (empty: 10.0 t)
weight: 13.0 t (empty: 10.0 t, full: 15.0 t)
Quote from: Ranran on July 26, 2020, 09:18:12 PMLet's go back to the example of the slope. Why did you find real-time acceleration useful for it?
Quote from: Ranran on July 26, 2020, 09:18:12 PMIt only gives a value like how the vehicle is leaning. I don't know what unit this is, and because it doesn't have units, it's hard for players to understand what it is, and it's inconsistent with other values. Perhaps the value that the player does not show much interest.
Quote from: Ranran on July 26, 2020, 09:18:12 PMYou once again ignored the m/s/s thing and replied only about the rest.
Quote from: Ranran on July 26, 2020, 09:18:12 PMI have been deprived of you a lot of time and motivation and gave me the opportunity to leave simutrans forum for a while.
Quote from: Ranran on July 26, 2020, 09:18:12 PMLooking at the last fix, you seem to have just added one line. The formula needs only two lines of modification. I suspect you are making a lot of useless changes unnecessarily. I don't know if it's efficient but it's a good idea to check. For example, calculation is performed even if it is not used. In the end, still unnecessary display is repeated on convoy detail. And I found calling those values directly from convoy_detail. I suspect you are trying to calculate and retain the values used to display the GUI even if we don't display it to the GUI.
QuoteAnd as I have said many times, simutrans extended does not exactly simulate real-world acceleration. They all behave like ancient electric trains.Despite the contradiction, you stick to the display of real time acceleration value. Before that, I think it's better to stick to working like the real world.In my personal opinion, I'm happy to have the correct accelerating behavior, rather than revealing that the DMU is accelerating strangely. You want the latter.
Quote from: Vladki on October 25, 2020, 01:35:52 PMAlso the iterative calculation of time and distance was joined into one function to optimize the computations.
Quote from: Vladki on October 25, 2020, 01:35:52 PMAll of these are commented out in the code, so if anyone would find them useful, can uncomment them.
Quote from: Vladki on October 25, 2020, 05:15:45 PMI can easily add display of some values to convoy details in debug mode.
Quote from: Vladki on October 25, 2020, 05:15:45 PMBTW, you can see the braking distance in replace window tooltip too.
QuoteI do not want to get again into discussion with Ranran about what is useful or not or if it should be in convoy info, detail, specs or somewhere else...
Quote from: Ranran on October 25, 2020, 10:04:35 PMMinimal efforts to improve the status quo should be welcomed.
Quote from: Freahk on October 25, 2020, 09:59:36 PMMajor effort might be put into the graph or a configurable v_is to v_target calculation, but as long as there is no such information provided, 0-vMax is most useful.
Quote from: Ranran on October 26, 2020, 08:31:36 AMAnd as I advised earlier, I'm afraid you're always trying to do unnecessary calculations and save them to all convoys. For example, of ma = F, it is not necessary to calculate and hold m, a and F.
QuoteI don't think adding one new piece of data to one GUI will hurt performance that much.