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Offline prissi

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Schedule windows improvements
« on: October 21, 2020, 01:44:06 PM »
The schedule windows seems totally different from the other dialogues. Also the line management window is a monster. Hence I propose the following:

Schedules are now accessed under a "schedule" tab in the convoi window. No extra window popping off. Make editing schedule much easier.

Lines get their own window, with schedule/statistics/stations/convoi tabs. So one can easily compare lines next to each other.

The line management window will become just a list of lines.

The will reduce the clutter of windows on the screen and remove the annoying extra scrolling when editing a schedule, because this window unfailingly pops up on the stop one wants to add ...

Any comments?

Offline Dwachs

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2020, 08:14:25 PM »
Sounds good. The pop-up schedule window is still needed for schedule editing  at depots. Maybe this can be changed as well?

Offline Roboron

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2020, 08:28:12 PM »
I like suggested changes, specially:

Schedules are now accessed under a "schedule" tab in the convoi window. No extra window popping off. Make editing schedule much easier.

Having to move/resize all those extra windows to edit a schedule is annoying, so this change is appreciated.

Offline Freahk

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2020, 11:34:04 PM »
Schedules are now accessed under a "schedule" tab in the convoi window. No extra window popping off.
I like the tabs generally, but I am unsure about one point. When will changes made to the schedule list be applied?
It feels a little unfamiliar to apply these when selecting a different tab. Requiring to close the window doesn't feel like a good option as well.
An explicit apply (and discard/reset) button might be an option and it would solve an isue I face frequently. When I make some changes to a line, I then notice I do not want to apply these changes, as I messed it up. As soon as I close the window, these changes will be applied. The only way to discard these is killing simutrans or  the network connection, which usually is not a good option as well.

The line management window will become just a list of lines.
To me, this is fine, but bear in mind some players use rather unpreciese line names and might use the list to identify their lines.
Not sure if that's a reason to keep the stop list or some basic informations in that window. In any case, the vehicle list can be kicked out.

Anyways, this change is appreciated.

Offline ceeac

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2020, 08:37:09 PM »
I support the apply/discard schedule idea. Another nice-to-have might be to support drag&drop for schedule entries to re-arrange them. Also, IMO the Minimum load and month wait time can be duplicated for each schedule entry so you can see and set them all at once. See my masterpiece of art in the attachment. ;)

Offline prissi

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2020, 01:38:05 AM »
Since I wanted to add departure times too, I highly doubt this will work out with the available space.

Offline Freahk

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2020, 02:08:03 AM »
Departure times?
You mean finally schedules arriving in standard?
That's one of only 3 features I really miss in standard!

Offline prissi

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2020, 07:07:55 AM »
SInce many people play Simutrans like a railwys, I finally think this should be there. It is useless for profit maximisation though.

Offline prissi

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2020, 02:45:17 PM »
Here is a patch with the requested apply and reverts buttons too. But this gives too many buttons ... alternatively the schedule woudl be updated when leaving the tab or closing the window.

I wonder it there shoudl be a seperator below the four top buttons. Or if these four "dangerous" buttons should go rather to the bottom below the schedule.

I think one could remove the follow button, since there is a follow button in the title bar. Also one could remove the servers line since the same information is in the schedule tab.

Any comment appreciated.

Offline Yona-TYT

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2020, 03:15:40 PM »
What if we replace [remove] with an "X" at each of the waypoints? , same as seen in the save games list.

===============================

Another idea is you can add a filter that replaces the 3 buttons (add, insert, remove), and combines them in a drop-down list.

Offline ceeac

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2020, 04:10:23 PM »
I think one could remove the follow button, since there is a follow button in the title bar. Also one could remove the servers line since the same information is in the schedule tab.
I agree; this would also free up space for the schedule tab. Maybe do it like this: Single click centers the main view on the current position of the vehicle, and double click additionally follows the vehicle?

But this gives too many buttons
What about just having "add stop" and "apply/revert schedule"? The latter two can be disabled until the schedule is actually changed. Schedule entries can be added as normal, then drag&dropped to the right position, and removed via an "X" button for each schedule entry like Yona-TYT suggested.
Personally, I do not like that schedule entry conditions are (still) separate from the actual schedule entry, since one has to click on each entry to see its wait time. What about something similar to this Factorio blog post, i.e. multi-line schedule entries? However, I do not know how feasible this is with the current UI code.

Offline prissi

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2020, 12:06:10 PM »
Drag and drop is a little tough to handle, at least with the GUI code as it is. But I thought too that adding and inserting should go away, probablz just inserting after current mark and up and down arrows next to delete to move entries around.

Easier is a combobox or a button that changes text. I think I will go for that right now

Offline Yona-TYT

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2020, 01:02:21 PM »
I think the [remove now] button should not be there, it makes more sense to me than this in the details tab.

Offline prissi

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2020, 01:21:05 PM »
But withdraw and and remove buttons should be close together. And withdraw sets no loading, which is a schedule action ....

Offline Yona-TYT

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2020, 02:25:32 PM »
My intention is to prevent the player from mistakenly pressing the remove now button, however I'm not sure what would happen if this happens in the new interface.

I suggest that when you click the button it is held down (similar to the "go to depot" button) and the changes are applied when changing tabs or closing the vehicle window.

Another interesting idea (I think) is to keep the button pressed for a few seconds until the vehicle is removed.

Offline prissi

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2020, 03:21:17 PM »
The same happens as when you press this before.

r9355 has the current state, so you can test it. It worked for me for many situations, but it may be still very buggy.

Next is a proper line window with schedule, charts, convoilist and haltlist ...

Offline Andarix

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2020, 04:31:13 PM »
mmh

gui/schedule_list.cc line 84

Quote
sort_type_c.new_component<gui_scrolled_list_t::const_text_scrollitem_t>( translator::translate("Free capacity"), SYSCOL_TEXT) ;

Can the existing text Free Capacity be used?

Offline Andarix

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2020, 07:24:05 PM »
r9381

probably a typo



After accepting the stop, the list is reduced very much.


Offline prissi

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2020, 04:46:31 AM »
Thanks, I still need to add the texts to the translator.

Offline ahakuoku

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2020, 01:31:41 PM »
We have a few concerns about this feature.
- Forced departure of vehicles on standby or stopping a vehicle once it is no longer able to organize its operation.
- The "Removed now!" Button is placed in a place where you are likely to accidentally press it.
- The operation of the route editing screen is complicated and may be confusing to beginners.
We are concerned about these three points.

Offline prissi

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2020, 01:42:55 PM »
Forced departure (no load) should work as before. Maybe "Forced departure" and "Stop" should get their own buttons. Before stopping was a left over side effect of the ancient system, and was not needed since the schedule windows operated on a copy of the actual schedule since ever.

Yes, the remove now button. I was thinking of leaving it with the convoi, but the withdraw button (which is the remove now on empty vehicles) should be rather with the schedule, because "no load" is a schedule operation and will cancel withdraw.

The line list is like the convoy list. You click on an entry and the detail opens. It is different from before, but it is now consistent to all other list windows in Simutrans, where a click opens the respective detail window.
I will try to improve usability by trying to open the new line window next to the line list windows.

Offline THLeaderH

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2020, 02:06:40 PM »
I saw the nightly r9382. When the traffic arrangement is needed, such as the case that vehicles are deadlocked, how can I change the stop_index of the vehicles? Even though I selected a specific schedule entry in the schedule editing window called from a depot window, I could not change the next stop of the convoy.

As of schedule editing, the entries of "add", "insert", and "remove" are switched by pressing the single button. However, I think this is not user friendly, since it is quite doubtful that players can immediately recognize that they should press the "Add" button to switch to "insert" or "remove" mode. IMO, "Add", "Insert", "Remove" buttons should be shown separately as they are in 122.0 stable.

For the line list window, I think that at least the stops of the line should be shown in the line list window. Players often omit the naming of lines, thus showing only line names may cause confusion. In 122.0 stable, the stops of the selected line are shown below the line list. So players can understand the route only with moving the cursor. However, with the current design, players have to click the line, and select the stops tab with a mouse, just to grasp the route of the line. I think this can be pretty annoying.

To be honest, I think there is no need to change the design of line list window. Although your changes increase the consistency in window design across the other windows, making the line list window too simple can cause the problem as I described above.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 02:17:24 PM by THLeaderH »

Offline Andarix

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2020, 04:41:14 PM »
r9381

If you open a line in the line list and close the window, you cannot open the same line again.

Offline Andarix

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2020, 05:39:52 PM »
Another Problem

The halt cursor remains after a line is created. If you then click, Simutrans closes without comment.

Offline prissi

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2020, 12:05:36 AM »
First, the old window had to go, since it does not scale with the theme.

@THLeaderH
Interesting, the stop display was for me the most useless ever.

About the mode, probably a combo box is better.

The rest are bugs, which I will address.

Offline Dwachs

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2020, 07:12:07 PM »
Schedule editing in the convoi-window does not work (apply / insert stop does not set the tool).

The crash should be fixed in r9392.

Offline prissi

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2020, 02:01:54 PM »
Should work better with r9397.

Also the line from line list will open right to the line window. Changing next destination worksa now again for convois too.

The only thing missing is the stop function and maybe a drive on button, which just skips the current waiting and advances the schedule to the next entry. Maybe this should get a "Cruise contro" tab, with the other four buttons from the schedule tab?

Offline Dwachs

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2020, 06:37:13 PM »
In line list: with r9400 one can reopen line window after closing it

Offline Vladki

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2020, 08:04:37 AM »
Hello, I have tried stndard after long playing extended, and found out that setting the convoy schedule is quite buggy (in nightly). Is there some bigger change just in progresss? Or should I test and report specific problems? Also, previously the retire "button" meant  "unload and go to depot"; while now it is "unload and sell on spot" which was "withdraw" button. Or at least it is so in extended... Some consistency would be nice.

Offline prissi

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2020, 12:27:19 PM »
Retire is unload and sell when empty. So if you retire an empty convoy, it is sold on the spot. Maybe extended changed that, but there is the button "Go to depot" which does what you want.

And please report problems, since my quick test had everything working for me.

Offline Vladki

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2020, 05:59:38 PM »
Retire is unload and sell when empty. So if you retire an empty convoy, it is sold on the spot. Maybe extended changed that, but there is the button "Go to depot" which does what you want.
But "go to depot" does not unload before...

Quote
And please report problems, since my quick test had everything working for me.
I'll check with latest nightly

Offline prissi

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2020, 01:02:34 AM »
But you will still get reimbursed for delivery to the depot ...

Offline Vladki

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2020, 04:22:29 PM »
But you will still get reimbursed for delivery to the depot ...
:o :thumbsup:

Offline Vladki

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2020, 04:47:10 PM »
And please report problems, since my quick test had everything working for me.

In the schedule list - the new line button is grayed out. It does not matter if I select "All" tab, or some specific transport mode tab. Also there is no way to delete unused schedule. When changing schedule, one has to "apply" schedule, which was not needed before.

Also having the appy/insert/delet switch as a button is counter intuitive (at least for me). A combo box is IMHO more suitable. Clicking a button I would expect to do something (eg. it is fine for copy backwards to be a button), but not just switch mode of what is happening. But this may be just because I'm used to the way this is done in extended.

I'm used to create schedule when buying the first convoy for it. So, go to depot, buy a new vehicle, click on schedule, click on stops, adjust loading times, and in the combo box on top promote to line. Hmmm, line dialog opens with everything as I want. Fine, close it. Close the vehicle's schedule. Still "not assigned to line". Check the combo box, select the new line, but some other schedule appears. Close. In the depot the new line cannot be chosen from the combo box.

I admit, some of the issues may be connected with the fact that I'm not used to click "apply" after each schedule modification. Is that something new?

Offline prissi

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2020, 12:12:19 PM »
The apply button was requested to allow to revert a schedule. However, it is entirely possible to apply the schedule upon closing/changing the tab.

The combobox is indeed better. In the new lien window, I used combobxes as well.

deleting line is in the line window under the convoi tab.

The rest works, if one presses apply.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2020, 12:44:22 PM by prissi »