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Author Topic: Schedule windows improvements  (Read 4583 times)

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Offline Yona-TYT

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #70 on: January 26, 2021, 01:25:15 AM »

 
The script does not work for me.
The previous script did not work for you? Strange, I only made minimal modifications, I will leave attached only the file that I have modified for you to replace it.

I could copy 10 convois, start 2, then the error message was "You must copy nine convoys."
When only the first 2 vehicles start it is due to inconsistency with the number of vehicles in circulation and the vehicle counter of the script.

However, I could open the schedule windo as many times as I like and nothing happened. It opened each time anew.
Are you setting the minimum load to 100% ?, you must leave it at zero for the routing list to be cleared.


Offline prissi

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #71 on: January 29, 2021, 02:45:12 PM »
How do I load the scenario afterwards? It just says now "scenario loading failed". (I have honestly no ideas on using scripts with simutrans, sorry).

Offline Yona-TYT

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #72 on: January 29, 2021, 03:26:58 PM »
(I have honestly no ideas on using scripts with simutrans, sorry).
Don't worry about it, I'm going to do my best to explain this well. (don't impart if that means having to use teamviewer.) 8)

How do I load the scenario afterwards? It just says now "scenario loading failed".
The file "scenario.nut" is for you to replace the existing one in the directory "/simutrans/pak128/scenario/tutorial_pak128-beta".
 The error loading is due to missing files. The scenario directory should look like the following image:

 

Offline Yona-TYT

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #73 on: January 29, 2021, 07:04:02 PM »
I have made a video capture, look here:
https://www.mediafire.com/file/2x3wcquf5y5cjwb/Capture-schedule-problem.webm/file

Edit.You can see in the scenario window the moment when the "all convoys" counter reaches 22.

Edit.I think I have a clue.
It seems to happen only when the map is clicked while editing the schedule and the function "is_work_allowed_here (pl, tool_id, pos)" is called, just at that moment the number of convoys increases.
I guess it should be checked in /dataobj/scenario.cc

Edit.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I suspect this is not caused by the new schedule window, I am going to open a new thread in the scripts section.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2021, 01:17:23 AM by Yona-TYT »

Offline Dwachs

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #74 on: January 31, 2021, 10:10:20 AM »
This has nothing to do with scripting: Create convoy in depot, click schedule, now click on a wrong tile to get error message 'stop has to be on a way', close schedule window. Now the message appears 'convoy does not find route'. The convoy is not listed as being in depot in the vehicle list despite being there. It can also be selected in the depot. The step to click on a wrong tile is important, without it everything is as expected.

Offline prissi

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #75 on: January 31, 2021, 11:15:35 AM »
EDIT:
Ok, the window top event set the convoi state. However, this is not allowed in depots. Should be fixed in r9593
« Last Edit: January 31, 2021, 11:27:26 AM by prissi »

Offline Yona-TYT

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #76 on: January 31, 2021, 01:36:24 PM »
EDIT:
Ok, the window top event set the convoi state. However, this is not allowed in depots. Should be fixed in r9593
Mr. Prissi thank you very much for your patience with this on this!.
Vehicles are working very well now.

Offline wolfgang

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #77 on: February 03, 2021, 07:47:44 PM »
I tried the latest nightly (9795) and I like the new schedule windows. Just my two cents in this:

When changing a schedule, the vehicle should not stop like dead, causing a traffic jam behind it. Therefore I suggest two additional buttons: apply and cancel. So the player can change the schedule as needed, and the vehicle will follow its old schedule, until the "apply" button is pressed. Pressing "cancel" would reverse the changes.


Offline Yona-TYT

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #78 on: February 04, 2021, 01:05:07 AM »
Line button does not have auto alignment. :o


Offline prissi

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #79 on: February 04, 2021, 01:50:00 AM »
@Wolfgang
An earlier version of the patch was exactly like this, but received strong critics from the players. The stopping of the vehicles was a desired feature.

Offline Freahk

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #80 on: February 04, 2021, 01:33:50 PM »
I'm still with that idea. The only thing that was missing is a simple "stop vehicle" button, as that is needed in some cases.
If I remember correctly, not being able to stop vehicles was the main objection.

Offline prissi

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #81 on: February 04, 2021, 02:00:30 PM »
Also when the vehicle drives on, the current items will change. However, this cannot be updated without changing the waiting time etc. in the top. So after the next waypoint/stop, the scheduel state will go to apply, even though nothing changed and would just try to send the vehicle back. There is no easy way around this.

Offline Yona-TYT

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #82 on: February 04, 2021, 02:38:03 PM »
There is strange behavior with timeout when saving and loading the game.

Process:
  • Configure individual routing and set load to 100% and timeout a value of 16, and close the window.
  • Save and load the game again and you will see that the value of the waiting time changes, in my case to 31.

Offline wolfgang

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #83 on: February 04, 2021, 02:43:15 PM »
I understand that some players prefer changing a schedule while the vehicle is on halt, for example if you don't want the current load to reach the next station. But the traffic jam caused by this stop can lead to more trouble then one more load of goods at the wrong place, if making the changes takes you too long, especially when trains are involved: one train stopping in the middle of a track can cause a whole cascade of none moving trains because of signals that make the following trains stop.

I see several possible solutions to this problem:

1. Player must create a complete new schedule first, and then assign that new schedule to the appropriate vehicle, instead of changing the current one.

2. Put the whole game on pause automatically, whenever the schedule of a vehicle is changed, so there won't be any blocked roads and tracks. That function should be optional, of cause.

3. On roads, make the halting vehicle stop a bit to the street's edge and let the following cars overtake it. That won't work for trains, though, unless you send the train onto some virtual holding track.

I agree that this is not easy to solve. But at least, don't stop the vehicle as soon as the player opens its schedule tab. Some times you just want to take a look at it. If a stop is unavoidable, do it as soon as the first change is made.


Offline prissi

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #84 on: February 05, 2021, 06:31:37 AM »
Most of the heavy users use lines, and just occasionally schedules. So the pressure is not as big for many users.

Stopping everything is not possible in network games (or will be very disruptive). As single player press p before editing ...

You can look at the schedule as another user (apart from public player). Then the vehicle in question should not stop. The logic around this is hopefully working, but additional testing is welcome.

Editing the schedule while the vehicle is driving has two problems. When the vehicle advances, the current entry in the list cannot advance. Or one would not be able to send vehicles to another destination, because the program cannot guess if the difference is intentionally or just due to driving on.

Offline wolfgang

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #85 on: February 05, 2021, 04:08:43 PM »
I can see your points for stopping a vehicle while editing its schedule there, Prissi, and I agree it wouldn't be easy otherwise.

On the other hand: you mentioned network games, which I haven't played yet. What happens, if one player parks a vehicle next to another player's loading station, opens the schedule and leave it open? That vehicle would stop, blocking the opponent's loading station as long as the schedule is opened. So editing a schedule could be used to harm another player. Wright?

What about these suggestions:

- vehicles stopping on roads while the schedule is edited should be overtaken by other vehicles, just like a bus at a station

- trains could virtually be sent onto a holding track, eg, by making them semitransparent while editing, making block signals ignore that train, thus enabling other trains to "overtake" the edited train

And just for the funny side: as a matter of fact, I never use planes in my games. What happens when you edit a plane's schedule? Does it stop in mid air? :-D


Offline Ranran

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #86 on: February 05, 2021, 04:27:46 PM »
- trains could virtually be sent onto a holding track, eg, by making them semitransparent while editing, making block signals ignore that train, thus enabling other trains to "overtake" the edited train
I think it is easy to abuse. Express trains can overtake slow freight trains on a single track by abusing schedule changes.

Offline michelstadt

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #87 on: February 05, 2021, 04:40:01 PM »
For me as a single player stopping is not a problem. Sometimes it might be good if vehicles could advance while editing, but as they don't behave like this, I decide if I stop the game meanwhile or not. Just my two cents.

Offline Matthew

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #88 on: February 06, 2021, 09:08:37 AM »
On the other hand: you mentioned network games, which I haven't played yet. What happens, if one player parks a vehicle next to another player's loading station, opens the schedule and leave it open? That vehicle would stop, blocking the opponent's loading station as long as the schedule is opened. So editing a schedule could be used to harm another player. Wright?

The evidence from multi-player games shows that malicious behaviour of this kind almost never happens.

Offline Isaac Eiland-Hall

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #89 on: February 07, 2021, 05:03:07 AM »
Express trains can overtake slow freight trains on a single track by abusing schedule changes.

I would almost say that if someone wanted to work that hard to abuse the system - as it would be rather extreme micromanagement - I'd almost say let them because if they're willing to work that hard to "cheat", that's a lot of work. Sure, not in one specific case, but constantly monitoring your entire network......

Offline Matthew

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #90 on: February 07, 2021, 08:43:48 AM »
Another thought. Opening the schedule is the only way to stop vehicles. This is especially important in multi-player games, which cannot be paused. I use this all the time, for example, to recover from jams. If opening schedules did not stop vehicles, there should be a 'Stop' button in the Vehicle Window.

Actually there should probably be a Stop button in the Vehicle Window anyway....

Offline Manche

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #91 on: Today at 11:06:32 AM »
The schedule windows seems totally different from the other dialogues. Also the line management window is a monster. Hence I propose the following:

Schedules are now accessed under a "schedule" tab in the convoi window. No extra window popping off. Make editing schedule much easier.

Lines get their own window, with schedule/statistics/stations/convoi tabs. So one can easily compare lines next to each other.

The line management window will become just a list of lines.

The will reduce the clutter of windows on the screen and remove the annoying extra scrolling when editing a schedule, because this window unfailingly pops up on the stop one wants to add ...

Any comments?

I agree.

But we need to consider to those two points.
- Sometimes, insert some stations between in existing that.
- Each buttons need to show what it does. e.g. Close button has a mark 'X'. Referenced Yona-TYTs post, but I can't find where is the close button.

I thought this is the one of the most biggest change in simutrans history. Change is simple, but explain is not.
Vehicle window has so heavy amount of information. One question, can player adapt to modified gui, w/ short period?

Offline prissi

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Re: Schedule windows improvements
« Reply #92 on: Today at 02:35:22 PM »
There will be a delete button with window closing cross in r9669.