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Author Topic: Added train line to stations, road traffic stuck  (Read 795 times)

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Offline knotwork

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Added train line to stations, road traffic stuck
« on: December 03, 2020, 09:30:30 AM »
I thought I had the thing about making new stops be part of existing stops down pat;

So I made a huge rail loop one way around all major destinations already served by so much road traffic they were getting too much road-traffic congestion.

I took care to put 8 tiles of straight rail close enough to each existing station to reach it using extension buildings so that when I started placing my 8 rail stations along the straight stretch the first one placed was adjacent to an existing station-building of the existing station, and sure enough that did work to make the rail platforms or rail freight stops all fall under the same station-name umbrella as the existing, road-oriented station and extension-building tiles; so far so good.

I sent an 8-tile train around the track. Sure enough it was able to pick up stuff that had been waiting for the usual buses and trucks and mail-trucks. Success, I thought. But apparently not...

Oodles of road traffic all over the place was getting stuck, couldn't find a route etc.

So I zoomed in on a stuck place, noticed the mailbox there was not connected by road (yet the lead vehicle was a bus, and the bus stop was still on road, a piece of road continuing past the bus stop to the freight yard dead end).

So I deleted the disconected mailbox and put a mailbox on the same stretch the lead vehicle was, I figured, trying to get to, so that now ahead of it is level-crossing, long bus stop, mail box, freight yard.

Still stuck.

After messing about quite a bit what I am now seeing is if I try to place on the road line's schedule a stop at the bus stop, the mail box or the freight yard, it refuses to accept that as a scheduled stop, apparently because it thinks it is supposed to be a train station; it says train stations must be placed on train lines.

So now I am suspecting that all my road traffic all over the map is probably stuck due to all my truck/bus stations having supposedly turned into train stations.

I have not read anything about such a thing.

I am using apt-get install simutrans on a Ubuntu machine newly upgraded to Ubunto 18.04 from 16.04, I belive I initially installed simutrans while at 16.04. The simutrans identifies itself as 120.2.2 ; I believe pak is just named pak as all I have here are pak and pak128-Britain.

Admittedly I have been living in the Extended section of the forum, so possibly all the advice I have had about how to make stations all fall under one station-name umbrella only applies to extended?

-MarkM-
« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 09:52:33 AM by knotwork »

Offline prissi

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Re: Added train line to stations, road traffic stuck
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2020, 01:26:15 PM »
The type of station does not matter, as long as it accepts passengers or mail and has a stop on a road tile. I rather suspect your bus is waiting for 100% loading and thus to trains never reach that load.

Offline Freahk

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Re: Added train line to stations, road traffic stuck
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2020, 01:50:49 PM »
When you build tram tracks on a road, you can even build a "normal" railway station on that road and make your busses to use that railway platform, so that's really not a problem.

You might provide that savegame, so it's easier to help.

Offline knotwork

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Re: Added train line to stations, road traffic stuck
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2020, 03:32:32 PM »
Sorry, I am not sure what happened there; I moved on, Haven't gone with rail afterall as I discovered it might not have been the attempt to branch out into rail that was bankrupting me. It seems I might be using JIT1, according to another thread I just came across in trying to figure out my current problem; so I think I would have failed even without trying to get into rail.

So now I seem to have my road network actually working, admittedly at not a lot of margin. I had to build some shortcut roads to avoid losing too much trying to haul coal and ore long-distance by road.

Now I am again ready to try to scale up; but rather than try rail again I have make a shipping line directly across a large body of water the my roads had had to go far far around.

On the coal-fired power-station side I made my port part of an existing very busy stop, the closest to the powerstation; I could not afford to canal right up to the actual power-station but I had the impression one can drop goods off at such an interchange.

So my intent is that the power station will redirect its coal trucks to pick up at the port rather than driving all the way around the lake or sea.

I got a bulk goods ship and set it shuttling; on one end I added a wharf to the actual stop the coal mine was already using; at the other end  I added the wharf to an existing very busy stop not so far from the power station. (But farther than I can afford to build a canal directly to the power station; though with this current problem I am even thining of building a solid line of post-offices from the power station to the coast so its existing station can include a wharf and thus avoid this nasty problem I am having right now...)

So, the bulk goods ship would not pick up anything at the coal mine.

First I thought it was because the busy stop across the water was too full; there were over eight thousand people waiting there to go to the coal mine; maybe to work there, even. So I built a passenger-ship, I already had some ferries, but adding the passenger liner / steamboat and adding a whole bunch of oil-tanks (320-cargo storage tiles) to the port I was eventually able to clear that crowding.

But still the bulk goods ship does not pick up anything at the coal mine.

The mine puts lots and lots of coal waiting to go (I gave it a bunch of oil-tanks too), but it just sits there until a truck picks it up, the coal ship won't load it.

I even took a few of the coal trucks off of the long-way-round route, they just shuttle between the powerplant's stop and the port stop. But there is never any coal waiting for them at the port because the coal-ship never brings any. (I let it run full cycles empty in case maybe it had to be seen to be on the route and factories had to get mail to one-another to organise a change of routing or some such thing but that didn't seem to help it just cost a lot of money. Though I suppose mail might take a long time to get around the long way around...)

Next thing I figure I could try might be to take ALL the trucks off the long way round route, as maybe that coal sitting there is deliberately waiting to trickle by truck as long as there is any chance at all even just one truck might still be going the long way around?

I am not sure what pak I am using, it is just named pak, no 64 or 128 etc specified; it came with apt-get install simutrans in Ubuntu 16.04 then might have been updated when I upgraded to Ubuntu 18.04.

Whatever pak it really is it seems to have population/passenger problems, as it seems likely considering the huge numbers of passengers waiting all over the place that more people are travelling than the towns realised they had as population? I do not know if this is deliberate to represent off-map visitors, or my impression is actually wrong and in fact it is exactly the population of all the towns, all out jaunting around rather than staying at home. Some of my stops had more population than maybe even the largest towns!

EDIT: Well it is working now, but, I do not know what did the trick; because I changed ALL the trucks on the long-way-round route to the powerstation<->port shuttle route.

So I am not sure whether it needed there to happen to be a truck actually trying to load at the moment it looked for a route for the coal, or whether there had to be no trucks at all on the long-way-round route. Or both, I suppose. I could take one truck back to the long route and see if that stops the ship being able to pick up coal I suppose. But mightn't one sometimes want to have more than one route active at the same time?

-MarkM-
« Last Edit: December 07, 2020, 05:42:41 PM by knotwork »

Offline en63

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Re: Added train line to stations, road traffic stuck
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2020, 06:25:55 PM »
If you build a new route between A and B. Then the old route should be removed, otherwise people and goods will not be used. Sometimes the problems are caused by one forgotten plying truck that doesn't have a named route.
2. As for overcrowding stops, check if you have options turned off as in the previous post.
Which year are you in the game? At the beginning of the game, when the vehicles are scarce, it is not worth servicing all cities. Because they won't be able to transport.

Offline knotwork

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Re: Added train line to stations, road traffic stuck
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2020, 07:28:10 PM »

I am in February, Winter, 1941. Weirdly it stopped saying the actual day some time back, though it shows what seems to be a time of day. I think that isn't part of this mysterious pak though as I used to see a day of the month; I think somehow some other pak I tried at somepoint maybe have changed things that stuck even on going back to the distributed pak.

I have been trying .Britain too, starting in 1750, and that seems to also have a passengers problem; at least the defaul pak's factories can handle it, the .Britain has only one market able to sell 4 units of stuff a month, I put that aside for now to go back to this started-in-1930 plain pak game instead. Looking at the industries in both there are some places where it just stops, like in pak it has a car factory but that needs plastic and there is no factory making plastic; and in .Britain I get apples from an orchard to take to market but nothing yet uses the cider the orchard also produces.

In .Britain I got a lot set up with horse and buggy but the roads are congesting and their idea of a train seems maybe to be a horse pulling a cart-on-rails. Haven't tried those yet. I like the East India sailing ships though. I guess that might be why I decided to try a ship run for this coal-to-powerstation thing. I definitely seem to be in JIT1 though as the powerstation stopped taking coal after a few shiploads.

It seems like it would be really really useful to have a button very much like the "withdraw all" that withdraws all the convoys of a line from service, but, one that just withdraws them all to depot once empty without selling them; also a fire back up the line button to put them all back into service when the power station starts accepting coal again. (Though I likely would then trim a few vehicles, to try to tune the thing toward not delivering too much too fast yet still deliver enough to keep power contstant to all the factories so as not to get a ripple-effect of disrupting their production.

-MarkM-

Offline prissi

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Re: Added train line to stations, road traffic stuck
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2020, 07:27:01 AM »
There are serveral settings to display time of day. You havge somehow triggered the 3 day per month setting. (which is zero in the from with the extended settings.) However, this is not a problem, since it only affects display.

Offline knotwork

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Re: Added train line to stations, road traffic stuck
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2020, 11:11:09 AM »

Thanks! I will try to fix that. Its only effect on me has been only using year and month for my savegame files, whereas I used to include day too in the filename. So I suppose it has actually been saving me disk-space. :)

What does it take to trigger the spawning of new industries? I finally managed to get all the inputs to the Construction shop working but the only sand mine ran out of sand! Yet the local authorities or who-ever is supposed to watch that stuff hasn't seen fit yet to open a new sand mine anywhere! All industries are still basically in or near the north-east quarter of the map but at this point it'd be worth venturing out into the rest of the map if need be to find more sand. The lack of sand is messing with the concrete factory which supplies some kind of special boxed contrete bricks or patio stones or some such thing for the Construction shop.

I suppose it is possible this pak (just pak, no 64 or 128 etc) is incomplete or something and like the version f .Britain I have just isn't going to work without player switching to public player and arbitrarily intervening, but I hope not. They keep upgrading their town halls and stuff like that but since there is only the one Constrution supplies place on the map they're gonna need to keep it running to get the nice aerated autoclaved concrete whatevers (AAC stones) to make their pretty new buildings...

-MarkM-

Offline prissi

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Re: Added train line to stations, road traffic stuck
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2020, 12:10:21 PM »
pak is just pak64. Since it was the first graphics in existence, it did not have an appendix.

There will be no new sand pits, because the existing ones are enough to fullfill the consumers need (unless there is a deliberate decision to have not enough sand, or the factory construction routine ran out of suitable places for sand pits (not so likely). As soon as the storage is full, the sand pits will not deliver more.

Offline en63

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Re: Added train line to stations, road traffic stuck
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2020, 03:09:28 PM »
"What does it take to trigger the emergence of new industries? After all, I was able to get all the inputs to the Construction Store, but the only sand mine ran out of sand!"

First try to provide electricity (connect electric lines, provide workers, post office. Production will increase.

Or just play well, use all the possibilities of transporting products, it can take even 10 - 15 years.

When there are no new sandboxes, because the game seems to have enough sandboxes to meet the needs of consumers. It is up to the player himself to try to build the plant in a favorable location.

I often do this because I consciously choose only 2 buyers from the factory. Then switch to public transport, set up the company and set up "concessions", i.e. recipients and suppliers.

Anyway, the use of a public player is indispensable when you need to bring electricity to such a furniture store. Then sales increase. Selected buildings in the city must be removed to make room for electricity. And then increase the number of inhabitants.

Your package is incomplete, it is best to download ready-made zip packages from the simutrans website and unpack.

Recently I discovered the best gaming possibilities on linux. I just discovered the ability to play the http://sourceforge.net/projects/simutrans/files/simutrans/122-0/simuwin-sdl-122-0.zip/download. best compared to previous versions. Product economy is significantly improved. After using wine, I click directly on simutrans.exe and run the game.

Offline knotwork

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Re: Added train line to stations, road traffic stuck
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2020, 04:15:50 PM »

Oh gosh I don't want to run wine! :)

I do have electricity to all the industries and to the construction shop, and plenty of passengers and mail. That is prbably why I was able to run the sandpit dry.

I have run around checking them aoo, it turns out Ore sources were run out too but they still had some at my stops with the huge freight storage I had built with all the stops.

By the time I was finished doing that it was a new month and the sandpit was producing again.

It really would be nice to have a way to turn off a whole line and turn it back on again. Trying to do it one convoy at a time would get very ridiculous, and the withdraw all doesn't just withdraw them temporarily from service it also goes ahead and sells them. It would be better to have them just withdraw, maybe to a depot, then decide later whether to sell them or put them back on the line or whatever.

-MarkM-

Offline Matthew

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Re: Added train line to stations, road traffic stuck
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2020, 04:33:49 PM »
Recently I discovered the best gaming possibilities on linux. I just discovered the ability to play the http://sourceforge.net/projects/simutrans/files/simutrans/122-0/simuwin-sdl-122-0.zip/download. best compared to previous versions. Product economy is significantly improved. After using wine, I click directly on simutrans.exe and run the game.

Oh gosh I don't want to run wine! :)

You definitely do not need to use Wine in order to get the latest, greatest version of Simutrans on Linux.

However, if you use the packages provided by a stable distribution (Debian, openSUSE, Ubuntu, etc.), they will intentionally be older versions that are less likely to cause problems with other software.

The easiest way to get the latest stable Linux version of Simutrans-Standard is probably through Steam.

If you have a philosophical/religious objection to Steam, then one of the regular Standard users is probably better placed than me to talk you through its own distribution system.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2020, 05:26:36 PM by Matthew »

Offline prissi

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Re: Added train line to stations, road traffic stuck
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2020, 01:44:48 AM »
The easiest way to simutrans on linux (debian derivated) is to use one of the packet, see here https://simutrans-germany.com/wiki/wiki/en_Simutrans_repo_deb

Offline knotwork

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Re: Added train line to stations, road traffic stuck
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2020, 04:01:46 AM »
The motherlode! Awesome, thanks! :) :D

All that GUI makes it seem complicated but I managed it. :)

But for most machines I use ssh I don't have desktop sharing usually and for remote servers trying to share Xwindows desktops is kind of impractical; I am pretty sure that GUI is a front-end onto the usual apt and apt-get and such so I'll try and figure out the command-line method to install on servers. It looks like it might not be quite as simple as with adding a "PPA" repository so will maybe need one more command than they do, to import the key as apparently with a PPA it gets the key from them automatically.

-MarkM-
« Last Edit: December 09, 2020, 04:26:16 AM by knotwork »

Offline prissi

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Re: Added train line to stations, road traffic stuck
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2020, 07:15:37 AM »
If you work the commandline, compiling simutrans is probably even easier. For a headless server, you just need a working libzstd-dev and libbz2-dev which exist almost for any . The rest is not needes. Check out sourcecode, autoconf, confugre make, finished.