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Speedbonus.tab doesn't change the speedbonus

Started by Flemmbrav, March 01, 2021, 10:41:37 PM

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Flemmbrav

So I stumbled on this thing that should have been noticed before...

My config/speedbonus.tab looks like this:
road=1835,10,2050,150
narrowgauge_track=1835,10,2050,150
track=1835,10,2050,150
maglev_track=1835,10,2050,150
monorail_track=1835,10,2050,150
tram_track=1835,10,2050,150
water=1835,10,2050,150
air=1835,10,2050,150

Ingame it appears as that:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/379653803848237059/816075953594826772/unknown.png, https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/379653803848237059/816075961074188358/unknown.png
And
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/379653803848237059/816076249097175080/unknown.png, https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/379653803848237059/816076285498884156/unknown.png in a different pakset.

I tried to copy a Pak128 speedbonus.tab and it didn't affect the game either.
If you want to download a whole affected pakset, try this link: https://github.com/Flemmbrav/Pak192.Comic/releases/download/Nightly/pak192-nightly.zip

I'm beyond confused on how I managed to figure this late, but this is very crucial for the balancing of maglev, ships and planes for us.
In fact I thought I destroyed the planes by mistake, but it seems like the game did parts of it too.

prissi

If the game has already started, it will overwrite any speedbonus settings from before.

TurfIt

Can't see anything wrong.
Using the speedbonus.tab values you have below   1835,15,2050,150 starting a new game at pak192 default of 1975 gives a basespeed of 101km/h.
With the speedbonus.tab from the pak192-nightly.zip you linked, basespeed 95 for all except ship at 39, and air which is broken at 795. 
Note as of r9208, 'air' is now 'air_wt' (Don't know why this type of seemingly unnecessary breaking change was committed...)

Flemmbrav

Thanks for reporting back.

I started a game with timeline and it seemed to work (besides that ari thingy, but i suppose i can fix that by defining both?).

The thing that did not work is a game without timeline being activated.
In a game without the checkmark of the timeline, the speedbonus.tab seems to be overwritten?

TurfIt

With timeline off, default hardcoded speeds are used. Doesn't seem conducive to pakset balancing; Perhaps speedbonus.tab syntax could be expanded to allow specifying these fixed values, but then with timeline off, balance is out the window anyways...

Flemmbrav

#5
Pakset-Balancing might be off a bit with timeline being off, but it doesn't hit as hard as these preset values.
In fact, planes and maglev are compeltly unplayable without timeline right now. Being able to predefine values (and if it's just the latest values given) would solve this completly.
The pricespan over time isn't worse than +-50% or so, while the span between planes and trains is around +-500%.
It ain't hard to design a pakset to get a lower difference between the years (really doesn't do a lot to pakset balance in our case), but there's no way we can adapt to the preset values without coming up with a completly new balancing approach I am not willing to do.

Edit: The game really is not running as I'd expect here and I hardly doubt I'm alone with that. I personally see this as a bug still.

If we really would care on fixing this properly, I suggest to use the speedbonus for the vehicle on the introduction date. That'd be best I suppose?
Still, changing it to just any of the values given in the speedbonus.tab would be 1000 times better than what we have now.

TurfIt

Speedbonus speeds are calculated once per month per waytype, not per vehicle, so I'd rather not use the speed at the vehicle introduction date.

There's 5 easily accessible values that could be used when timeline is off:
1) The 'default' (current behaviour)
2) The regular timeline calculated value - i.e. still use the timeline for this.
3) The 'old' way. Pre .tab, average speed of all available vehicles per waytype.
4) The first speed specified in the .tab.
5) The last speed specified.

IMO 5) makes some sense using the highest speed assuming the paks newest vehicles are balanced for that speed, and the timeline is off usually to support post 2999 play.







prissi

I think the last value makes some sense, I think few would use slow boring stuff when timeline is off.

Ters

I think using slow things is a major reason for playing with timeline off. However, this will likely also be with freeplay on, so speedbonus is irrelevant.