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Author Topic: pak128 marked as unmaintained  (Read 853 times)

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Offline prissi

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pak128 marked as unmaintained
« on: January 04, 2022, 11:00:11 AM »
In the current release pak128 will be marked in the installer as unmaintained, which means that there has been only minimum support since 2017 and essential features are not supported: starting years before 1900 impossible, no climate zone support for buildings (also no clustering or alignment of building orientations to roads), unbalanced factory productions with transport capacities (especially earlier years, like the ore mine requiring ~500 truck to transport enough for the steel works), impossible to build bridges from flat ground, to mention just a few.

Since there is a large community still loving pak128 (which is why it is still default on steam despite its shortcomings) it would be nice if there are a few people interested enough to bring this back to life. Maybe one has just a single task, like one volunteers to check/work on introduction (and retire) dates for buildings and factories. This goes together with clustering and alignment rotations for some buuildings. Another could hunt for vehicles/buildings to fill historical holes). Another could try to balance match factory production and storage with transport capacity, maybe even using JIT2 as default?

EDIT:
You can find the official sources now on http://github.com/simutrans/pak128 and under the releases the nightly build.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 12:38:45 PM by prissi »

Offline cousjath

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Re: pak128 marked as unmaintained
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2022, 08:23:40 PM »
I would be happy to help with maintenance, but I cannot find the source for it to contribute to. Several paks are on Github, but pak128 isn't one of them, and Sourceforge doesn't have the source files.

Online makie

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Offline cousjath

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Re: pak128 marked as unmaintained
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2022, 02:27:58 PM »
I've done some looking at the source files, and I have a couple of questions. How do I set clustering or alignment of buildings? This is not mentioned in the simutrans wiki. For the early years, there are are a load of images under pak128/material which are ignored, are these available to be build with and made part of the standard pak? Is it allowable to copy stuff from other paksets (i.e. pak128.German)? There was also mention of being impossible to build bridges from flat ground, this seems to be fine to me.

Online makie

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Re: pak128 marked as unmaintained
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2022, 03:43:53 PM »
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CLusters?
The English wiki is missing the description.
https://simutrans-germany.com/wiki/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=de_BuildingsDef&no_bl=y
Sometimes the German wiki is better maintained.
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alignment to the street?

If a building has 4 graphics for 4 directions for rotation and it should have them, the  building should be aligned to the street.
Most building has a face side looking to the street.

https://simutrans-germany.com/wiki/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=en_BackImage&no_bl=y
The number in the picture means the first number of  "BackImage[0][0][0][3][0]="
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are these available to be build with and made part of the standard pak?
of course
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Is it allowable to copy stuff from other paksets (i.e. pak128.German)?
Yes, but remember if you copy all graphics of pak128.German, then you have a clone of pak128.German. And not a pak128 (international)

Offline wlindley

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Re: pak128 marked as unmaintained
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2022, 06:05:51 PM »
https://simutrans-germany.com/wiki/wiki/en_BuildingsDef  is updated with an English explanation of clusters.

Offline prissi

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Re: pak128 marked as unmaintained
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2022, 12:01:11 PM »
Even if there are only 2 rotations, it would be nice to merge them in a single aligned building.

But firstmost are probably decent introduction dates for factories and townhalls and maybe a lot of other buidlings). Such cities need to look decent on startup (which the introduction year is gradually increased during town growth) as well as when growing by hand (map editor first button, I think).

Offline garro

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Re: pak128 marked as unmaintained
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2022, 07:06:03 PM »
I would like to help too, but I am not sure how. I am not good with blender, but maybe I could suggest  vehicles or fill the dat files.
If someone mentors me, maybe I could also help to balance the pakset.

Offline cousjath

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Re: pak128 marked as unmaintained
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2022, 09:42:25 PM »
Thanks for explanation and wiki update. I've copied pak128 to Github and done some work on it, so far I have done:

  • Added climates and start dates to attractions
  • Added start dates to industries
  • Expanded English and German citylist and streetlists (copied from pak128.Britian and pak128.German)

Current source is at https://github.com/Cousjava/simutrans-pak128

Offline prissi

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Re: pak128 marked as unmaintained
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2022, 05:16:52 AM »
Thank you for your effort.

However, I would prefer to keep the files on sourceforge, because this makes collaborations much easier and keep almost everything simutrans pakset related as much together as possible and most of the person involved have write access there. Otherwise it is very hard for someone to update translations or in a few years if someone leaves and then there are outdated copies somewhere.

You can use git-svn, or, if it must be github (which is less suited in principle for binary files than SVN since all the files are downloaded each time there is a modification, but everybody apart from me loves it) then you can use the simutrans organisation, where also more people have access rights. I would like to avoid to have the same repo in different versions at different places and rather do things right from the start. I invited you for pak128, but since  I am not using github much, it may have not worked.

Also I am not sure which tool you used to import the SVN, but emails are not correct. You can use prissi@github.com for me. Also all files seem to have lost their history after the move. That is probably not what you intended. I can commit your changes again to sourceforge, and then you could clone it from them using the inner folder for pak128. Or revert the last commit (which I am not sure how easy this is with git without still losing the history).

About the city lists: Since every paks should have its own character. However, sicne these were indeed country specific, it make sense.

EDIT:
svn was preferred, because it can generate a unique revision, which is internally used by the installer. (well, git could also deliver a commit count for that purpose).

I also saw that the current compling system of pak128 is very mixed, there is a bat file, the Makefile and python scripts all over. I strongly suggest to keep the Makefile working, as it is used by the other pakset as well. The last release used the Makefile, as far as I know.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2022, 01:43:57 PM by prissi »

Offline garro

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Re: pak128 marked as unmaintained
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2022, 06:59:44 PM »
In my opinion, to improve collaboration, everything that is written in German should be translated to English.
@cousjath can I open a issue?

Offline prissi

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Re: pak128 marked as unmaintained
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2022, 05:37:38 AM »
I have moved pak128 to github simutrans and repaired the makefile for nightly builds, which can be found at https://github.com/simutrans/pak128/releases Please test them.

(The automatic import of the tutorial and translations is still missing.)

@cousjath You have committing rights on it. I have committed your changes (with some edits, like the earliest way to transport milk is from 1870, so the dairy must not appear before that etc.)

I think the map colors of the factories are still wrong ... Well, pak128 was really not maintained for a long time.

When modifying the intro dates of factories, it is important that all earlier factories are available before a consumer or chains will be incomplete.

Apart from many spelling errors reported by recent makeobj, I noticed that all three American traffic lights are somewhat broken, they just have 13 instead of the needed 16 images. Maybe some red images can be copied but I have to leave them out for now.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2022, 06:44:23 AM by prissi »

Online Yona-TYT

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Re: pak128 marked as unmaintained
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2022, 02:42:02 PM »
The tutorial scenario for pak128 has been finished for a long time, unfortunately nobody included it in the pakset I'm afraid.


Offline prissi

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Re: pak128 marked as unmaintained
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2022, 01:31:38 AM »
The tutorial has been merged with the pak128 main fork.
@Yona-TYT Please fork your tutorial from there, so I can directly incorporate pull requests.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2022, 02:18:44 AM by prissi »