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New narrow-gauge signalling issues

Started by passengerpigeon, February 23, 2022, 06:59:52 PM

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passengerpigeon

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1a2uAN780JsX9diQ-r_4-DfjpLkLhNE48/view?usp=sharing
After taking a hiatus from Simutrans and upgrading to the latest Pak128.Britain Extended Nightly, the narrow gauge railway in the south of the map attached is now experiencing signalling issues that it didn't have before. The existing trains were getting deadlocked everywhere and only going 1kph when I first loaded the map, and after replacing them, they are now taking their sweet time obtaining clearance into a totally empty station at Tilchester. Is this a new bug that I just need to wait for a fix for, or did I build the signalling incorrectly?

Spenk009

It sound like the game is confused about the signals, but I don't think much has changed recently. Do you know how old your prior pak was compared to the newest? If you can narrow it down to a date or week, we can look at the changes on github.

passengerpigeon

Quote from: Spenk009 on March 01, 2022, 09:43:42 AM
It sound like the game is confused about the signals, but I don't think much has changed recently. Do you know how old your prior pak was compared to the newest? If you can narrow it down to a date or week, we can look at the changes on github.

I think it was mid-2021. A narrow-gauge railway I built on Bridgewater-Brunel had the same problem.

Spenk009

I took a look at the save, you are right in that the train sets off at 1kph. The window shows that it is in Absolute Block signalling mode, rather than Drive By Sight. I would say this is due to a lack of signals at the exit of the platform, meaning the trains don't get a clear signal when they exit the station. Instead they slowly push until they can see the next signal, into the single-track section, after which they speed up until they either have to slow down or can speed up.

I would suggest you always build semaphore stop signals at the end of each platform in which trains may depart at. Looking further up the line, there are similar instances of missing signals in low volume lines of both narrow gauge and standard gauge in the South-East. You seem to place them further down the track to enable them to use the signal for a single section, rather than letting them wait at the station. This can cause deadlocks by leaving trains on intersections.

In Hollyingridge, the standard gauge trains revert to drive by sight as they reverse. All trains not exiting the one platform in line with the track out of the station slow down until they can see the signal. Being able to see a signal far down the track is an important aspect of keeping trains running at speed. Try to make sure trains can see signals early, by using pre-signals or moving signals to straight sections of track.

Also, well done getting in on the steam trams. You're raking it in I'd say!

b10alia

I am also having issues with NG on token block working. The trains seem to completely ignore the token signals and run past them like they were regular absolute block. This leads to the trains getting "confused" at the station in the single line section ahead of the token block signal and giving the 1kph behavior mentioned as soon as they depart.


I've also noticed that this "poisons" the vehicle-- send it back to the depot and restart it and it will travel at 1kph and ignore signals. The only solution I've found is selling and re-buying the vehicle. Having it run past the token block signal and have it "not work" seems to be what "poisons" the vehicle.

I had one train on my large map pick up the token properly but it never released it, which caused problems for everything else on the line. There also seem to be issues with trains "leaving behind" reservations and getting stuck at 1kph.

I haven't looked into this deeply enough to say much more than the above, I just wanted to +1 the issues with NG signals. I haven't seen issues with my "real trains" although I don't use token block much on standard gauge.

The point of token block, I thought, was to avoid needing any signals in the line following the token block signal similarly to how "long block" worked in regular pak128. I understand how the real system works and that there are practical considerations to implementing it "realistically" in-game, but I don't think I've got my signals set up wrong... although I do want to verify that the train should release the token once it passes the next "normal" absolute block signal.

Spenk009

Can you share your save? If a train never releases a token, it sounds like it never passed over a different token block signal or returned over the original one.

Person0123452

I'm not sure specifically about the token block issue, but I did notice trying to set up a system for my narrow guages with passing dual track in the middle and staff cabinets at each end, on the first run at least, the trains would get to the terminal stations (the only stations on this line) and just "forget" that they had a staff. They'd revert to drive by sight and when they reached the exit cabinet, they would try to retrieve a staff (but couldn't reserve the track section as it was already occupied by the other train) instead of replacing one. I was able to brute force them into behaving by forcing them back to the depot then forcing them back on schedule before they got there and deleting cabinets and replacing them afterwards. The issue doesn't happen regularly, the trains run fine now they've been at it a while, they only seem to do this on the first run or so out of the depot.

I don't know if this has any relation to your token block issue, but it seems like it's a problem in the same ball park. I should also say I don't update every day, I may well be using a relatively old build of the game at this point.

Stetim

I am experiencing these issues too.

Standard gauge works perfectly, but whatever combination of simple or complex signallying I try, I end up with stuck trains and 1kmph. This is on a simple loop with 3 trains sharing 1 way tracks

Currently in a long term game in 1884, the issues I have;
- Train disregarding choose signal and showing "emergency stop"
- 1km/h, even following multiple signals, or with all signals removed not reverting to drive by sight
- Stuck just outside a completely empty station with no reserved tracks showing "waiting for clearance"
- Running on "one staff" routing when all the staffs have been removed (and a couple of full runs to clear the protocol)

The only solution has been to revert to 1 train per track/platform and run one staff signals. This is obviously inefficient and unscalable.

Otherwise a great game and big props to the Devs for giving it to us.

jamespetts

Welcome to the forums, Stetim. I am sorry that you are having problems. Can I ask you to upload a saved game in which you can reliably reproduce these issues?
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