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Japanese translation for EMUs and DMUs

Started by Phystam, July 03, 2022, 04:03:09 AM

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Phystam

I have recently been working on a Japanese translation and would like to discuss something about vehicle translations.
Most of the vehicles have only numbers and nicknames such as BR Class 801 EMU "Azuma". Most Japanese people, even railway otakus, cannot understand what it is, how it is used.
This problem can be solved by including the type of a vehicle in the translation. For example, "commuter type," "suburban type," "express type," "inter-city type," etc. These type informations may help you to choose vehicles for your purpose.
If I have a complete list of these types for DMU/EMU vehicles, I can proceed with this task. Is there a helpful list somewhere?

Ranran(Hibernating)

#1
Keep in mind that a vehicle name that is too long will only help temporary clarity when purchasing the vehicle and will have many negative effects on other UIs.
For example, when assembling a convoy, the name of the first vehicle is automatically registered in the name of the convoy.
Names that are too long may widen the width of the dialog, disrupt the layout, or be truncated and indistinguishable from those that differ only in the second half. Also, name line breaks cannot be handled correctly by simutrans's text display system due to many inconsistencies. That is, combo boxes replace line breaks with spaces, but labels break the display, text areas correctly break lines, increase the number of text area lines, and text may be displayed outside of the dialog. Names that are too long are often hard to read and so annoying. The convoy name can be edited in-game, but the vehicle name can only be changed by changing the translation. Those who are not perverts will not bother to change the translation.

I think it may not be a problem that can be solved simply by changing the translation.
The ideal solution I think is to have multiple text fields. That is, model, group, tag.

Group is like class XXX. In the case of Japan, it is like "JR West 225 series", "Hankyu 1300 series". This is best for names that are automatically assigned to convoy.
The model is like "Kumoha 225", "Tc1300". (I don't know how the UK distinguishes between vehicles alone, but I wonder if the lead car of Class800/0 is the DPTS810 according to Hitachi's site.)
For example, if all of the convoys are made up of 225 series and looking into the convoy detail, there is no point in claiming that all vehicles are "I am 225 series of JR West!". That is, redundant information is repeatedly described in a very long text containing a lot of information.

tag reads the definition from the tab prepared by pakset for each way type and assigns a number, for example, [rail]
  • = tank locomotive, [rail] [1] = tender locomotive, [rail] [2] = commuter type, [rail] [3] = suburban type
This, in combination with a filter, facilitates vehicle selection. Also, if an upgrade changes type, the player may be able to recognize what the upgrade is, and even without knowledge, it may be possible to avoid inadvertent upgrades.











(´・ω・`)シミュトランスのアップデート履歴(日本語) (※更新停止中)
bit.ly/3AuKHHP

Octavius

I'm not so familiar with British rolling stock either, so I see some help may be useful. That could be some free-form description.

About groups and models, the EMU or DMU as a whole is known by the name or abbreviation of its class. This may already give a hint about its role. In the Netherlands, we have for example SLT=Sprinter LightTrain (no translation needed; for local services), VIRM=Verlengd InterRegioMaterieel (extended (they got additional cars) inter-regional stock; for longer distance services, as no route here is much longer than 200 km anyway), ICM=InterCityMaterieel (intercity stock; for longer distances). On the other hand, there was also Mat'54=Materieel 1954 (1954 stock, after the year when they were ordered; mostly longer distances) and Plan V (plan V, just alphabetically labeled; for local services). It looks like in most other counties, it's more popular to just give them a number.

Cars within such an EMU are usually labeled by their type, with letters for various properties and sometimes a digit for disambiguation. The system varies by country, but some letters are standardized. I couldn't readily find an full list of the letters on English wiki, but Dutch wiki has one. Maybe Google can translate it. Some of the more or less standard letters are:
  • A: first class
  • B: second class
  • C: third class
  • D: luggage compartment
  • P: mail compartment
  • c: couchette car
  • f: driving cab
  • r: restaurant car
  • v: bicycle compartment
For example, the first car of a VIRM is known as VIRM mBvk1:
  • m: power car
  • B: second class
  • v: double-decker
  • k: driving cab
  • 1: front version (mBvk2, the rear end car, is pretty much identical)
A complete 6-car VIRM (there's also a 4-car version) consists of mBvk1 + ABv5 + mBv7 + ABv6 + ABv3/4 + mBvk2: two second class power cars with driving cab, one second class power car without driving cab, three cars with both first and second class, in a few variations and all double-decker.

A similar labeling system is also used for goods cars across Europe.

Junna

Quote from: Ranran on July 03, 2022, 08:33:18 AMGroup is like class XXX. In the case of Japan, it is like "JR West 225 series", "Hankyu 1300 series". This is best for names that are automatically assigned to convoy.
The model is like "Kumoha 225", "Tc1300". (I don't know how the UK distinguishes between vehicles alone, but I wonder if the lead car of Class800/0 is the DPTS810 according to Hitachi's site.)
For example, if all of the convoys are made up of 225 series and looking into the convoy detail, there is no point in claiming that all vehicles are "I am 225 series of JR West!". That is, redundant information is repeatedly described in a very long text containing a lot of information.

Most have a name for the individual vehicle (and a separate number), but this is not consistent over time--particularly before the introduction of the 1971 computerised numbering scheme TOPS.

There's usually codes for the vehicle type (DMBS = driving motor brake standard, denoting function and class accomodation), like kumoha, etc. DPTS is for example Driving Pantograph Trailer Standard. "TC" is "trailer composite" (first and second). Previously, before third and second class were merged to 'standard class', there was also T for Third.
Usually vehicles would have numbers in the range of their class (308 156 DTSOL, driving trailer standard open lavatory)

Usually the "class" number for EMU's is equivalent to the japanese 系, and the Class for locomotives equivalent to 型.

Difficulty in distinguishing the types for regional/outer suburban and inner-suburban commuter (high-density) types and so on is quite hard because they at various times may have been used as one or other, and were usually not strictly limited to one role in their lifetimes, apart from that, usually, higher capacity usually meant suburban, and cross-country, regional etc had lower capacities.

The "Azuma", "Deltic", and so on, is simply like an official or semi-official fan-name for a type.

Phystam

Indeed, it is difficult to distinguish between commuter and suburban types, and they are rarely distinguished in British trains. In Japanese EMUs, the distinction was made for a long time, but recently it has been unified and called "general type". It would be better to distinguish between local train service and express (or inter-city) train service.
In the case of locomotives, it will be easier for players to choose a locomotive if the distinction between freight and passenger locomotives is clearly indicated in some way.
The easiest way is to add the type information to the translation, but Ranran is right, the translation may be too long to fit in the UI. However, adding this kind of information to the .dat file is going to be more work for Ranran and pakset creators.

Ranran(Hibernating)

#5
Note that extended now allows us to set a unique accommodation name.
It can take over part of the vehicle description.
For example, separate the name "first class" from name and set it as the accommodation name.
Then you can translate all first class translations in one text.
But if it was combined with a name, you would have to translate the "first class" contained in every name. Otherwise the word "first class" will never be translated.
But to be able to do that, pakset needs to set the accommodation name, however assigning a common accommodation name is not so difficult when managing paksets in a spreadsheet.

Accommodation names for unclassified or freight categories are currently ignored, but it may be arguable whether this can be displayed.

Quote from: Phystam on July 04, 2022, 11:58:27 AMIn Japanese EMUs, the distinction was made for a long time, but recently it has been unified and called "general type".
It's not good to take only one part and say the whole thing. It's a story limited to JR-East, not Japan.
(´・ω・`)シミュトランスのアップデート履歴(日本語) (※更新停止中)
bit.ly/3AuKHHP

Sirius

To be honest, I don't mind pretty much about their real-world classification.
When selecting rolling stock to get the job done, I'm doing doing this like
"I got a line with short stop distances all the route. The infrastructure is 3rd rail and shared with further lines, so it should support 3rd rail.
Let me check the options... Low loading times, good acceleration, that's great. Is there another option that offers some additional benefits? Class? I don't mind, will reasign to Very Low anyways. Oh there is one that suits my needs quite well and has many seats in a low class and a few in a higher class, let's pick that one."

Anyways, adding some classification might be quite beginner friendly.
If you start, you don't want to bother with all of these attributes. Speed, acceleration, passenger classes,

who do not know about all these aspects yet. I agree with Ranran that bloating the UI on the other hand is a rather bad idea.
Also, using codes like VIRM, DMBS, DTSOL or IC is counter productive. These are rather local specifications which some might never have heard of. I had no idea what DMBS or DTSOL is before reading your post and I only know VIRM because I live rather close to the border of the Netherlands.

I'm wondering whether we might get a "simplified" and an "expert" view on the depot window?
The simplified focusing on a few classifications and the most relevant data. Something like "commuter", "regional", "intercity" and "high-speed" and in addition, passenger capacity with accommodation class, maximum speed, power supply (steam, diesel, electrification type), necessarily further constraints and that's it!
Well, maybe the cost as well.