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How to turn off the control over "goods in transit"?

Started by jimishol, August 21, 2022, 06:37:05 AM

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jimishol

I am switching from simutrans extended to standard for reasons noted in my resent posts.
Briefly, the amount of "goods in transit" does not include the necessary information to prevent overstocking of consumer's industry (velocity and number of convoys) and it is theoretically wrong to use it for such a purpose. I could accept it, if the control was restricted to one station away from consumer but it is extended, unnecessarily and falsely to me, up to the source industry. It is unacceptable to control the velocities and capacities of departing from source convoys in large lines.  If the control was restricted to one station away from consumer, in order for "goods in transit" to have a meaning, i would restrict the connections from last station, only to be done by 2 convoys and never by only one. (The right value to be compared with consumer's storage is the "consume rate *lead time  * 2  / number of convoys").
I want production to stop whenever consumer's storage is overstocked but absolutely no control on "goods in transit". The first i guess it is done by just_in_time = 1=old style. (Please confirm)
When in simutrans-extended i used maximum_intransit_percentage to 10000, so as to allow in most of the large lines all necessary goods to be in transit, it seemed to me that results from calculations due to the control of "goods in transit" still were infiltrated toward the production rate. So, i ask if yours maximum_intransit_percentage =0 in /usr/share/simutrans/config/simuconf.tab prevents any further infiltration of the algorithm for the control over "goods in transit" in the rest of the simulation.

As a player who likes design, I wouldn't want to start a game that unnaturally encourages that design.

TurfIt

Quote from: jimishol on August 21, 2022, 06:37:05 AMBriefly, the amount of "goods in transit" does not include the necessary information to prevent overstocking of consumer's industry (velocity and number of convoys) and it is theoretically wrong to use it for such a purpose.
Good thing it's not for that purpose then... It is simply an exploit control; Prevents one transporting the full output rate of a factory to a transfer station, and leaving it there. In single player, up to you if you "cheat".


Quote from: jimishol on August 21, 2022, 06:37:05 AMmaximum_intransit_percentage =0 in /usr/share/simutrans/config/simuconf.tab prevents any further infiltration of the algorithm for the control over "goods in transit" in the rest of the simulation.
Yes, setting =0 turns it off.

Quote from: jimishol on August 21, 2022, 06:37:05 AMI want production to stop whenever consumer's storage is overstocked but absolutely no control on "goods in transit". The first i guess it is done by just_in_time = 1=old style. (Please confirm)
No. With JIT1, shipments from the producer stop when the consumer's storage is full. Production only stops when the producer's storage is full.
With JIT2, shipments are throttled to the consumption rate. (and max_intransit does not apply in JIT2 mode.)


jimishol

#2
Thank you for the clear explanation. (I hit "I like" button but i am not sure for this button purpose). JIT2 is my liking then.

The only thing that i would like to note is that, if "goods in transit" is simply an exploit control, consider to allow "consume rate * lead time * 2" because, as "consume rate * lead time", no line can be served with just 1 convoy ever.
Hmm, if production with JIT1 does not stop then if the single convoy can carry "consume rate * lead time * 2", all is good, unless the upload stops at "consume rate * lead time".

When we say consumer's or  producer's storage is full we mean that they contain quantities equal to their maximum capacities? Production and shipments stop at the equality or when maximum capacity is just over passed?

PJMack

Quote from: jimishol on August 22, 2022, 05:39:30 AMThe only thing that i would like to note is that, if "goods in transit" is simply an exploit control, consider to allow "consume rate * lead time * 2" because, as "consume rate * lead time", no line can be served with just 1 convoy ever.
I believe you may be confusing "lead time" with with the convoys time data.  The lead time is the time from factory floor to factory floor whereas the convoy timing data is the time from halt to halt.  For this simple case of a single convoy going from a station at the supplier to a station at the consumer, the lead time would be more or less the round trip time of the convoy.  For multiple convoys, that lead time would be about half the round trip time divided by the number of convoys (which would be the time waiting at the halt) added to the one-way trip time.  A more common case would be that the goods would go from the supplier to the supplier halt to a major freight hub, take another convoy to another freight hub before taking a third convoy to the destination halt before finally reaching the destination.  Even in that scenario, the "lead time" calculation is performed in such a way to take into account all the convoy journey times as well as all the times waiting at the halt for the convoy to arrive.

jimishol

I read some definitions of lead time on internet. Each time, lead time is determined taking into account the process from order to production to final deliver to client. The process in game is that always convoys do round, two way, trips. So, for
Quotethe lead time would be more or less the round trip time of the convoy
yes we agree.
In next, i disagree.
Assuming that both ways are crossed with same speed
For multiple convoys, that lead time would be about half the round trip time divided by half the number of convoys
because half convoys return to source empty and only half are toward their road to deliver.
In the case where only one convoy is used, if lead time (two way round trip) is 2 months and consumer wants 4crates/month, that convoy needs to carry 2*4=8crates each time in order to satisfy the demand.
The phrase in comments for JIT4 in extended
Quoteuntil the next delivery is estimated to arrive if the goods were to leave the producing factory now.
is in contrast to my above view.

Anyway by JIT2(new style) in standard, it seems i can avoid that disagreement.