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Bridgewater-Brunel game no. 5

Started by jamespetts, October 31, 2022, 12:14:04 AM

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jamespetts

Please do not post bug reports in this thread - please post bug reports in their own thread (i.e., strictly one thread per reported bug) in the Simutrans-Extended bug reports forum. Thank you.

The Bridgewater-Brunel server is now running its fifth long-term game, started in October 2022.

Here is a screenshot of the map:



This map is 7808x2432 (slightly larger than the previous map at 7500 x 2100), but has a larger sea area overall, so a mostly overall number of towns (229, up from 212 on the previous map).

This map has two main landmasses: one to the east and one to the west. The easterly landmass is smaller than the westerly landmass and has more lakes and fjords. There is also a smaller landmass in the northern central area and a few small islands in the sea.

This is the first new start map to have the new pier system enabled from the outset, which will hopefully see more realistic way construction in urban areas than had obtained previously, giving more interesting challenges about how to integrate transport infrastructure in built-up areas.




Details

Dimensions (tiles) 7808 x 2432
Dimensions (km): 976 x 304
Starting date: January 1750
Towns: 229
Starting population: 999,866
Starting industries: 2,298

Please see here for rules and guidance for playing on this server. Please see here for guidance on how to choose a realistic, era-appropriate company name. Although doing so is not strictly compulsory, it is strongly encouraged.

Tips and notes for those new to playing Simutrans-Extended online
  • To join the game, just select the Bridgewater-Brunel server from the network games dialogue in the game (press the "n" key).
  • In case of a problem with the listing server, join the game either by typing bridgewater-brunel.me.uk into the network game dialogue, or type net:bridgewater-brunel.me.uk into the load game dialogue.
  • Remember to set a password: do this by going to the "players" dialogue and clicking the green box. If you do not do this, other players will be able to play your company and even lock you out
  • Do not use the same password for this as you use for anything else. The password encryption is not strong.
  • The game will be paused when no players are connected.
  • Bridges over public rights of way, including navigable rivers, need to be at least two tiles high.
  • The "Board of Trade" (later "Ministry of Transport" and later still "Department for Transport") player is the in-game government. It is run by the server administrator.
  • The "observer" player is locked. On joining the server, players will be assigned to be this player, but cannot build anything. This is to allow people to look around without playing.
  • Most towns will be connected by bridleways at the start of the game. These cannot be passed by wheeled vehicles. Roads can be upgraded at a lower cost than building a new road.
  • It is not possible to delete public rights of way, but it is possible to divert them slightly. To do this, build the diversion before deleting the old way. The diverted route will become a public right of way itself even if you paid to build it.
  • Anyone whose company is unused after 10 years will have their password automatically reset.
  • Anyone whose company has never built anything will have their password automatically reset after 2 years.
  • Anyone who wishes to leave the game or would like to abandon her/his transport company and start again, one can set one's company to allow being taken over. Once the company has been taken over, it will be permissible to start a new company even if you have had one before the takeover (but having multiple companies at once is not permitted).
  • Please report any bugs with the game or pakset or balance issues on the appropriate boards (one thread per bug, please), not in this thread.
  • As the game develops, it will become more demanding on computational resources. Slower computers might not be able to keep up. The symptom of a client computer not being able to keep up is a large and increasing time lag between doing something (e.g. deleting a tree) and this action occurring in-world. Disabling water animations can reduce the computational load, as does viewing the map at a higher zoom level (i.e. more zoomed in).
  • Stagecoaches require two pairs of horses to travel at a sensible speed. For hilly terrain, three pairs of horses may be better.
  • Players will not be able to rename towns and industries, as this is not appropriate for a multi-player game.
  • Industries are partly restricted by region (some industries can only be built in some regions), so some much longer industry chains will be needed in the early game where resources that cannot be produced in the region in question are required
  • Canals and rivers are important in the early game: see here for a video tutorial on the subject:
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Mariculous

Outrage!
The government has granted a Fishing monopoly to Nareinon Fishing.
The assigned property of the fishing port is located at a lake near the city center of Nareinon.
Unfortunately, the assigned fishing grounds are located in the ocean nearby, which is not connected to the lake.

The project has burnt a few billion British pounds of taxes so far, whilst people in BB5 suffer from a hunger crisis.

jamespetts

The server has been afflicted in the last few days by a recurring crash. I believe that I have now fixed this; I am in the process of a manual rebuild of the server, so the server should be working again in circa 15 minutes. You will need to download the new version of the Simutrans-Extended executable to join the game.
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zook2

Good morning,

on the BB server I just bought a company (Insular Railways) that was in administration. I didn't look closely because it looked like a bargain. But apparently it was a company run by an experienced player (Huitsi) who was online just a few hours earlier. This might have been a bug, or he put it up for sale by mistake. Anyway, until we sort it out, can you reset the server to a point before I bought it? I think I bought it after the 7 AM save this morning.

Thanks!

Matthew

A major player's company (Huitsi's Inland Railways) was taken over this morning. Although it was heavily indebted, it was solvent and profitable. It had 86 depots, 427 stops, 172 signal boxes, 129 active lines..... I think it would be unfortunate if all that had to rebuilt because of a moment's carelessness. James, could you please restart the server from the last save with the company intact?

My last suitable save is from 2023-03-03 1651 GMT. If anyone else has a more recent save (look in your 'simutrans' folder for recent clientX-network.sve files, where X is a number), please share it (you can use Box, Google Drive or any similar service that allows sharing large files).
(Signature being tested) If you enjoy playing Simutrans, then you might also enjoy watching Japan Railway Journal
Available in English and simplified Chinese
如果您喜欢玩Simutrans的话,那么说不定就想看《日本铁路之旅》(英语也有简体中文字幕)。

Huitsi

Curious, I'm pretty sure I was nowhere near administration. In debt, yes, but my profits should have been much greater than the interest. I certainly haven't intentionally put the company for sale.


jamespetts

I am a little unclear on the issue and what exactly has happened. Can I clarify why it is thought that this takeover was illegitimate or erroneous and how and why it occurred?
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Matthew

#8
Quote from: jamespetts on March 04, 2023, 12:56:47 PMI am a little unclear on the issue and what exactly has happened. Can I clarify why it is thought that this takeover was illegitimate or erroneous and how and why it occurred?

Zook, who controls the largest company on B-B, noticed a company available for takeover this morning and took it over. He presumably thought it was a minor company that had been abandoned. He didn't realize that it was the company of Huitsi, who I reckon is the second most active player on the map. The company was the second largest by assets, about a million pounds ahead of the 3rd-placed company, and I'd imagine Huitsi has put dozens if not hundreds of hours into it. Zook has made clear that he wasn't trying to wipe out Huitsi. It was an unfortunate mistake and I think all the active players would like it to be reversed.

As to why this happened, I wonder whether Zook might have muddled it with another (minor and abandoned) company that also became available for takeover this morning. Possibly he was also slightly blurred-eyed early on a Saturday morning and no caffeine had yet reached his brain!

There's also the puzzle as to why Huitsi's company become available for takeover as he surely won't have enabled that himself. The company had a lot of debt, but the profits were higher than the interest rates, so it wasn't in a death spiral. I am not very familiar with the takeover rules though.


EDIT: I am now hosting here the most recent good savegame (kindly provided by Huitsi) in the hope of learning why his company became available for takeover. Feel free to have a look. You will need to use -load net:88.198.46.90:13353 as I can't replicate the official hash.
(Signature being tested) If you enjoy playing Simutrans, then you might also enjoy watching Japan Railway Journal
Available in English and simplified Chinese
如果您喜欢玩Simutrans的话,那么说不定就想看《日本铁路之旅》(英语也有简体中文字幕)。

jamespetts

Thank you for this. I have merged the two topics discussing this and reset from the earlier saved game. I notice that, on that saved game, it is noted that Insular Railways' net wealth was low, although still apparently above its solvency limit. However, that warning message may give some clue as to how it had entered administration and whether this was correct.
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Matthew

I have bug reported the issue here. I am not sure how Huitsi is going to be able to recover from this.  ::'(
(Signature being tested) If you enjoy playing Simutrans, then you might also enjoy watching Japan Railway Journal
Available in English and simplified Chinese
如果您喜欢玩Simutrans的话,那么说不定就想看《日本铁路之旅》(英语也有简体中文字幕)。

Huitsi

It looks like I might be able to make it above the new liquidation limit within a year, but it will be close. And that's assuming way degradation doesn't ruin me before that. Thus, a fix for this bug* is likely needed for Insular Railways to continue its business.

*) I assume it's a bug, anyway, as I really can't see a reason for it. IR looks like an all-round healthy company to me, if indebted by (profitable!) investments.

An unintended consequence of using my save is that the spawn (where the camera starts when you join) has moved. Once the IR situation is figured out, it should be moved back to the noticeboard at the original spawn. Alternatively, a less populated spawn/noticeboard location could be selected.

Isaac Eiland-Hall

Just open the console and type "rosebud" a few times. ;-)

jamespetts

Quote from: Huitsi on March 04, 2023, 07:30:49 PMIt looks like I might be able to make it above the new liquidation limit within a year, but it will be close. And that's assuming way degradation doesn't ruin me before that. Thus, a fix for this bug* is likely needed for Insular Railways to continue its business.

*) I assume it's a bug, anyway, as I really can't see a reason for it. IR looks like an all-round healthy company to me, if indebted by (profitable!) investments.

An unintended consequence of using my save is that the spawn (where the camera starts when you join) has moved. Once the IR situation is figured out, it should be moved back to the noticeboard at the original spawn. Alternatively, a less populated spawn/noticeboard location could be selected.
As set out in the bug report post, this was indeed a bug, and has been fixed as of the next nightly build.
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jamespetts

Can I check whether anyone is having trouble remaining in sync with this game? Attempting to connect using a Windows client results in an instant loss of synchronisation for me, but I see that others have managed to remain connected. I cannot reproduce this issue with a local server.

Knowing whether anyone else is having this issue (and, if so, what platforms that people are running) will help me to track this down.
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btzy

Quote from: jamespetts on March 11, 2023, 01:56:39 PMCan I check whether anyone is having trouble remaining in sync with this game? Attempting to connect using a Windows client results in an instant loss of synchronisation for me, but I see that others have managed to remain connected. I cannot reproduce this issue with a local server.

It's the case for me as well (I'm on Windows), but Hutsi told me to pass -load net:bridgewater-brunel.me.uk to the command and that bypassed the login screen and avoided the disconnect.  I suppose unloading a game doesn't actually clean up everything in some way?

Huitsi

I'm pretty sure did not tell anyone about "-load net:bridgewater-brunel.me.uk", since I only started using it myself after seeing it on the noticeboard. I had been -loading a smaller save which didn't cause desyncs when joining B-B. The first message on the noticeboard about it seems to be Matthew's.

Speaking of the noticeboard, the initial camera location still needs to be moved back to the noticeboard at (1445,225), or a new better location for one. AFAICT this can be done by saving the server game locally at the desired location (and maybe zoom level) and then making this save the new server game.

jamespetts

Thank you for your feedback on this. I suggest that discussion of this issue continue on this thread.
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Matthew

The server is down. James, when it is convenient, could you please restart the server?

At the moment, the game spawns in a place where it is not convenient to place notices and with the player set to Insular Railways (i.e. Huitsi). I have edited the save from before the freeze to spawn as Observer with a Noticeboard set up; it's here. If you have time, it would be helpful to restart from this save.

FYI before the freeze I had tried to join several times over the course of half an hour. Each time I was desynced on unpause (not even a checklist mismatch). The final time the game never unpaused and B-B then failed to post the next Listserver update. I was able to connect to Williams-Webster though, so the problem wasn't my Internet. But there's no bug report because I have no idea of the cause; there's nothing obvious in the client or B-B logs and I wasn't able to reproduce the freeze on my own server frm the same savegame.

Players: a savegame from just before the freeze is now running on Williams-Webster (-load net:88.198.46.90:13353) if you want to test any new layouts or just need some Simutrans-Extended to keep you sane.  ;D  Changes here will not be carried over to the real game, of course.
(Signature being tested) If you enjoy playing Simutrans, then you might also enjoy watching Japan Railway Journal
Available in English and simplified Chinese
如果您喜欢玩Simutrans的话,那么说不定就想看《日本铁路之旅》(英语也有简体中文字幕)。

neroden

James, this is a *really nice map*.  Do you think you could make the starting map (before any players started doing anything) available for download, somewhere, for single-player games?  I'm having trouble creating maps I like.

jamespetts

Quote from: neroden on April 01, 2023, 07:29:19 AMJames, this is a *really nice map*.  Do you think you could make the starting map (before any players started doing anything) available for download, somewhere, for single-player games?  I'm having trouble creating maps I like.
Apologies for the delay: I have uploaded the starting map here. I hope that this is helpful.
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neroden


SuperTimo

I am currently unable to connect as I desync immediately, is anyone else encountering this?

BamZooki

Newbie, not related to anyone similarly named ':)

jamespetts

Can I check whether this problem is universal or whether anyone is able to connect?

If universal, this may end up being one of those critical issues that takes months of intensive work to resolve.
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BamZooki

Quote from: zook on June 29, 2023, 09:34:17 PMI am

To clarify in some more detail I was able to a few nights ago but havent since on 3 different wifi networks.
This issue I have had also on the Stephenson server also (although the welcome message begins to scroll before connection is lost).
Newbie, not related to anyone similarly named ':)

TransshipmentEnvoy

The server seems to be down now?

jamespetts

Quote from: TransshipmentEnvoy on June 30, 2023, 04:12:45 AMThe server seems to be down now?
Yes - and this is not the usual failure mode, either. It may well be that we have a bug that is causing it to crash when people join. I am unfortunately very busy at present, but will have a look at this when I get a moment.

My apologies for the disruption to people's games.
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TransshipmentEnvoy

Quote from: jamespetts on June 30, 2023, 07:01:27 PMIt may well be that we have a bug that is causing it to crash when people join.

Probably. I tried to join the server and after one attempt the game told me the server had no response, and after some minutes more the listserver page showed the server had been down.

Not sure if this is related to paksets, as I am using a locally built pakset of pak128.britain-ex from the source code obtained on github

jamespetts

I have fixed a possible bug this evening that might have been causing the crashing - we shall see whether the server comes back up again to-morrow.
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jamespetts

After having restarted the server, I can confirm that I can now connect and stay in sync. The server is back up.
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freddyhayward

The server appears to be offline, now having missed its announce by over 1 hour.

LanciaDelta

Hi James

I think I have the latest save as the server seems to have frozen after I joined. There's no password in this savegame though will that be an issue?

https://mega.nz/file/YmcgiTTJ#6PjpSlkZlXjT6Cno4m-S4qu1M7HfsqRBXfd900GEQSo

zook2

The server seems to be up, but I can't join. The server list at
http://list.extended.simutrans.org:8080/list
is down, however.

Andarix

Simutrans servers can currently only be reached via IP and port.

The DNS address of the list server is permanently stored in the code. However, DNS triggering is currently not working.
see https://forum.simutrans.com/index.php/topic,22418

In my opinion, the fixed deposit directly in the code is a design error. It should be possible to specify the list server externally (simuconf.tab or another file) in order to avoid server failures, even for versions that have already been published.

jamespetts

Quote from: Andarix on September 07, 2023, 02:27:27 PMSimutrans servers can currently only be reached via IP and port.

The DNS address of the list server is permanently stored in the code. However, DNS triggering is currently not working.
see https://forum.simutrans.com/index.php/topic,22418

In my opinion, the fixed deposit directly in the code is a design error. It should be possible to specify the list server externally (simuconf.tab or another file) in order to avoid server failures, even for versions that have already been published.

Changing the list server based on a setting in simuconf.tab would be a worthwhile addition for the future. If anyone would like to code a patch for this, I should happily incorporate it, but, ideally, it would be common across Standard and Extended.
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Andarix

Quote from: Andarix on September 07, 2023, 02:27:27 PMSimutrans servers can currently only be reached via IP and port.
....

The DNS address of the Simutrans server should also work alongside the IP.

zook2

I've tried
bridgewater-brunel.me.uk
46.32.231.222
46.32.231.222:13353

both in-game and via command-line link, and I get no response, although I can ping the server.

Isaac Eiland-Hall

I'm sorry for the delay. This should start working tonight.

jamespetts

The server has been down since the 7th of September. I have now restarted it with the latest build, including the signalling fix. Apologies for the trouble. Thank you to Isaac for fixing the list server.
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zook2

Thanks everyone for all the work!

jamespetts

I have experimentally modified the server_frames_per_step setting from 12 to 2 to see whether this makes the game smoother to play in a large, well developed map such as we currently have. I should be grateful for any feedback from users as to how this affects gameplay. Thank you.
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Matthew

FYI Bridgewater-Brunel has not appeared on the Extended Server List for the last couple of days. Might be connected to the latest patches or might not.

I am not actively playing this game (and won't have time for Simutrans for a few weeks) so there is no hurry to fix this on my part.
(Signature being tested) If you enjoy playing Simutrans, then you might also enjoy watching Japan Railway Journal
Available in English and simplified Chinese
如果您喜欢玩Simutrans的话,那么说不定就想看《日本铁路之旅》(英语也有简体中文字幕)。

jamespetts

Quote from: Matthew on February 28, 2024, 03:58:41 PMFYI Bridgewater-Brunel has not appeared on the Extended Server List for the last couple of days. Might be connected to the latest patches or might not.

I am not actively playing this game (and won't have time for Simutrans for a few weeks) so there is no hurry to fix this on my part.
Thank you for the report. I think that this was the more common thread deadlock issue. I have reset the server; it would be useful to test whether this works with the latest patches.
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