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pak72.Elegance half height, a "pak.Classic" renovation project

Started by _Hajo_, January 10, 2023, 07:43:09 PM

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_Hajo_

I had started this quite a while ago, got stuck, was busy with other things, had forgotten about it and recently thought it might be worth another attempt.

Key goals are to make a nice looking, 72 pixel set with half height landscape levels. Why 72 pixels? The core idea was to relax the spacing of pak64 some, and allow bigger, high level buildings while keeping the vehicles in pak64 size. Why half height? It just looked better to me.

At the moment there is only a very rudimentary industry chain and a somewhat random selection of vehicles. If I can keep the current energy and motivation, this might actually get somewhere. At least the old sources are dusted, updated a bit and they compiled with current makeobj.

Attached is a playable preview to try. Sources will follow after some more cleanup, too many unused, dead files in there.

Edit: Sources are now available:
https://github.com/Varkalandar/pak72.Elegance




Yona-TYT

This pakset is very beautiful, the small fields like terrain objects call my attention, I don't think there are any in another pakset.


Years ago I played openttd and saw that capos like that combined to form a beautiful set of fields, I wonder if it is possible or how difficult it is to achieve the same in simutras.

field.png
field-openttd.png
 

_Hajo_

Thank you, makes me happy to hear that I'm on a good way with the "Elegance" idea!

The fields (if I remember correctly) are borrowed from pak128.Britain. So credits to the maintainers of that one to inspire me.

I once had patched a Simutrans version so that it could group such elements. You will find remaining entries from that time in the dat files called "friends". That was to hint the landscape generator to group such a decoration with some of their friends.

I want to offer this functionality again, but I want to do it differently. I also want to research options for larger (multi-square) decorations, like lakes, rock formations or similar, which are big, but not worth to be a dedicated tourist destinations (i.e. to appear in the curiosities list).


[C] Ranran

Quote from: Yona-TYT on January 10, 2023, 11:22:11 PMYears ago I played openttd and saw that capos like that combined to form a beautiful set of fields, I wonder if it is possible or how difficult it is to achieve the same in simutras
Is it possible to create a wide river using such a system? It is strange because all the rivers in simutrans are narrow. A large river should be several kilometers wide. A long bridge is needed to cross a big river. In simutrans it always happens in oceans or lakes...

_Hajo_

I've been trying to clean up and fix at least the rail part of traffic. I also tried to fix industry chain setup, to get somewhat balanced chains.

Changes since v0.01

- Added a concrete bridge for rails
- Added English language texts
- Added German language texts
- Muted clay pit colors somewhat to make it blend in better
- Brightened pine trees a very little
- Fixed slightly off perspective on a framework house
- Added basic sound effects from pak64
- Added a department store from pak128.Britain
- Gave the sand pit a bit more noise in the sand areas
- Darkened the landscape textures a bit
- Reworked level 0 river graphics some
- New special tools icon
- Improved some icon looks

Version 0.02 is attached and should be playable.

prissi

Lakes are in the code. One could generate a wider river like a lake.

[C] Ranran

Quote from: prissi on January 15, 2023, 07:04:07 AMLakes are in the code. One could generate a wider river like a lake.
But the lake part can't draw the slope properly...

_Hajo_

So I was researching how to do houses with my tools. I've always been bad at houses because I had no good way to put windows into them. I think I found a way now.

Another thing that I wanted to make was a vegatable and flowers farm. The produce doesn't need intermediate processing and can be sold at the shopping mall directly. So this will be handy for an easy starting transport chain.

farm_preview.png

I'll have to do a lot more adjustements to give all the graphics about the same brightness. Overall I think the old pak64 objects are often too bright (see the station platform in this screnshot), but these platforms are a particularly tricky case cause the builtin rails should stay as bright as they are and only the platforms should be darker. Seems I must remove the rails from these first. I think modern Simutrans can draw rails under stations.

_Hajo_


Yona-TYT

Quote from: _Hajo_ on January 17, 2023, 07:11:43 PMAnd a lake,

simscr23.png
Those details that give a beautiful touch to the paksets, those types of artistic details make me very happy. 8)

_Hajo_

Makes me also happy to hear :)
I'll do my best to make this set look good. It's a slow process though, such graphics each need several days to make. But step by step by step I'll add new and replace old.

_Hajo_

3rd release, with a heap of changes and improvements.

- Added a market farm
- Added a lake as tourist attraction
- Adjusted truck running costs
- Added English and German language entries
- Fixed bad pixels in snow texture display
- Adjusted some too bright buildings
- Fixed marker and border grids
- Darkened overland road a bit
- Adjusted some icons to the new style
- Gave three trees more season graphics and a new winter style, more to do.
- Added winter graphics to some rocks
- Improved shore transitions and water textures
- Fixed some gaps between level 0 river tiles

Playable preview attached.


Flemmbrav

Since one of your goals is to relax the spacing a bit, do you plan on keeping the vehicle sizes from pak64? Or do you want to use this chance to bring equal scales for multiple types of way?

_Hajo_

I plan to keep the vehicle sizes. They look a bit tiny now though.

Quote from: Flemmbrav on January 20, 2023, 06:07:15 PMOr do you want to use this chance to bring equal scales for multiple types of way?

I'm sorry, I did not understand this? I'm not really a model railroad fan, so scales are not that important. But it bothers me that there are so few good looking sets. So that will be my core aim. Make it look good, even if some scales are wrong.

Edit: I'm not really an artist either, but that still is my intention. I'll do my best and apply all skill to make it look good.

Flemmbrav

In most paksets, busses are drawn in a bigger scale, than trains, and trains are on a bigger scale than ships etc.

In the standard "pak" there are two vehicles, that in reality are around 18 meters long. (BR 118 and Neoplan Jumbocruiser)
But in the game, they have very different sizes.


Having extra space on the tile could be helpful when trying to bring them on a closer scale.

_Hajo_

I remember that in old times ships could use a full tile, while other vehicles could use only a half tile. It seems current Simutrans has lifted some of these restrictions. There are no ships in the pak right now (I think) and train and road units are all "half tile" as in the old times.

I am stuck at old times. So that is how I will base sizes. Trains and trucks are half tile, ships are full tile or even larger.

If you want a "realistic" tile set, look at the people who are real model railway fans. I am ... not sure ... game maker, artist, idiot. Likely all of that.

I will try to make a good looking pak set, and I will try to roughly accommodate to scales. But my guidelines are good looks and not realism. I think there are very serious attempts to get the scales right (pak H0 scale?) ... I feel free now to do more art stuff. In my past messages I told that it is ok of trains and trucka re oversized cause they are important game elements and thus are ok to appear larger.

That is still my thinking. There was a lot of talk about bad building scales in Simutrans pak64 while TTD had even worse. But TTD looked better.

That is what I try to do. "Look better".

_Hajo_

Quote from: Flemmbrav on January 20, 2023, 06:34:17 PMIn the standard "pak" there are two vehicles, that in reality are around 18 meters long. (BR 118 and Neoplan Jumbocruiser)
But in the game, they have very different sizes.

Sorry, I did not read your message carefull enough last time and got a wrong idea. I see the problem now. While I cannot guarantee to have proper (i.e. realistic) scales, I will try to avoid such problems. Indeed, both should be about the same size in the game.

Isaac Eiland-Hall

I have to say that this pak looks right up my alley. While I like your other work for many reasons - it's great looking and even just I'm glad to see you around here and enjoying things - this looks like a pak I'm more inclined to play. :)

I love the concept - a little more room. But also the aesthetic of what you're doing so far.

I don't have the energy to download it yet - specifically I'm fighting covid right now, but in a few days when I get back to the forum again, I'll grab the latest and play with it. I look forward to seeing your work on this pak, for sure.

jamespetts

Quote from: Isaac Eiland-Hall on January 22, 2023, 10:29:16 PMI have to say that this pak looks right up my alley. While I like your other work for many reasons - it's great looking and even just I'm glad to see you around here and enjoying things - this looks like a pak I'm more inclined to play. :)

I love the concept - a little more room. But also the aesthetic of what you're doing so far.

I don't have the energy to download it yet - specifically I'm fighting covid right now, but in a few days when I get back to the forum again, I'll grab the latest and play with it. I look forward to seeing your work on this pak, for sure.
Get well soon!
Download Simutrans-Extended.

Want to help with development? See here for things to do for coding, and here for information on how to make graphics/objects.

Follow Simutrans-Extended on Facebook.

_Hajo_

Quote from: Isaac Eiland-Hall on January 22, 2023, 10:29:16 PMI have to say that this pak looks right up my alley. While I like your other work for many reasons - it's great looking and even just I'm glad to see you around here and enjoying things - this looks like a pak I'm more inclined to play. :)

I love the concept - a little more room. But also the aesthetic of what you're doing so far.

First, get well soon, as James already said. I wish you a speedy recovery. Covid can be nasty.

Second, thank you very much for the feedback! It helps a lot to stay motivated. This week I hope to set up a new industry chain, and make one or two new vehicles for that as well.

Yona-TYT

Quote from: Isaac Eiland-Hall on January 22, 2023, 10:29:16 PMI have to say that this pak looks right up my alley. While I like your other work for many reasons - it's great looking and even just I'm glad to see you around here and enjoying things - this looks like a pak I'm more inclined to play. :)
I love the concept - a little more room. But also the aesthetic of what you're doing so far.
I don't have the energy to download it yet - specifically I'm fighting covid right now, but in a few days when I get back to the forum again, I'll grab the latest and play with it. I look forward to seeing your work on this pak, for sure.
We hope you get well soon and that you come back soon!. :thumbsup:

_Hajo_

I've made a new factory hall for a metal working company to complete the iron production chain. And a first transport of iron bars is on the way.

Isaac Eiland-Hall



I like the feel of the pak so far. The countryside is really pretty, which is a huge deal to me. :)

_Hajo_

Thank you! I'll keep adding content. For today, an iron industry chain. Ore mine and steel mill are imports from pak128, the metal works factory is new.

Changes since v0.03:

- Added surface iron mine from pak128
- Added steel mill from pak128
- Added metal working factory
- Added a new diesel engine
- Added a random small barn as decoration
- Imported a tree from pak64
- Increased productivity of some clay related industries

Playable preview 0.04 is attached.

Isaac Eiland-Hall

So I definitely miss road signs and fences so far. lol.



Are they on the (pardon the pun) road map, by any chance? I would assume they'd be very low priority. And I guess the only downside to the pak's size is I can't even steal them from another pak without remembering how to make paks and getting graphical. lol.

I may have to do just that, though, since apparently I've decided to play this pak for now :)

_Hajo_

A lot of features have been added to Simutrans while I was away. I must admit I don't know about road signs at all. I'll check the wiki and other pak sets to learn about them.

I think you can borrow some content from pak64 directly. The size difference is not that big.