The International Simutrans Forum

 

Author Topic: 101.0 and 102.1-2481 linux-gcc4 bankruptcy with freeplay on  (Read 3827 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline steffen

  • *
  • Posts: 78
Hi, I've been having trouble with freeplay mode, namely it doesnt seem to work and I go bankrupt inspite of it being on. I kept playing for a bit with closing the the new game window but I figured I really should report it. I reproduced the problem with the latest nightly. This happens in my game on a very large downloaded map of the world with pak128.

I'll just describe what exactly I did for this:
- had simutrans 101.0 installed using my distro's package manager
- downloaded the sim-gcc4 file and put it in the install folder /opt/simutrans
- note that I did NOT use the nightly pak128 for this, but I really don't see how that could influence this problem
- start simutrans with this command (copied&pasted): /opt/simutrans/sim-gcc4 -freeplay
- load my savegame (note that I had saved after bankruptcy, but that shouldn't be a problem, right?)
- accelerate to get to the end of the month and it goes bankrupt.

Am I doing something wrong? Any help would be appreciated :)

Thanks, Steffen

Offline jamespetts

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 20774
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: 101.0 and 102.1-2481 linux-gcc4 bankruptcy with freeplay on
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2009, 03:31:09 PM »
You write that you had saved after bankruptsy - this is probably the problem. When you save a game, all of the settings, including freeplay, are saved with it. When you load the game, these settings take precedence over settings set on the command line or in simuconf.tab. Thus, freeplay, etc., applies only to new games.

Incidentally, welcome to the forums!

Offline steffen

  • *
  • Posts: 78
Re: 101.0 and 102.1-2481 linux-gcc4 bankruptcy with freeplay on
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2009, 03:52:04 PM »
That was quick, thanks for the reply :)
I was under the impression that freeplay can be switched on and off, in a number of places it states that if you run out of money you should just save the game, quit, restart with freeplay on, load and proceed to waste cash. E.g. at http://en.wiki.simutrans.com/index.php/Start_Simutrans#Freeplay it says "To do so for a game started without the switch, just save, restart ST with the switch, and load the savegame again."

Is that still current? If not that would be a real shame, yes its a cheat, but at the end of the day we play games to have fun, not to satisfy rules ;)

In any case I figured that maybe its the fact that I went bankrupt that got saved, even if freeplay isn't. So I loaded an older savegame (but it's the same game as the one I'm having problems with now, just an older save) and wasted all my money. So far so good, I was on loan for 4 month. Note that I had started the game without freeplay mode since I wanted to stick to it (but then gave up on the budgeting thing lol).

So I tried what happens if I produce a negative net balance - now it goes bankrupt again. I'm guessing this is intended behaviour, but it would be really really nice if that could be turn-offable. Either way if someone can confirm that this is indeed intended behaviour then the docs should be updated, I could update the wiki if someone confirms this.

Finally I wanted to check that freeplay has any effect so I loaded the same savegame as before but without -freeplay, but it still happily goes into loan for 4 months.

So in summary freeplay doesnt seem to have an effect on existing games whatsoever, but the docs say it should.

I'll try later whether it has any effect for me on a brand new game but I'm being bugged to put an episode of 24 on now so I'll report on that later :)

Cheers Steffen

Offline steffen

  • *
  • Posts: 78
Re: 101.0 and 102.1-2481 linux-gcc4 bankruptcy with freeplay on
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2009, 03:55:56 PM »
Oh and the gist of my last message - an option to turn off bankruptcy completely for all circumstances including existing game with negative net wealth would be really really good. According to my understanding of the docs that's what freeplay should do but if not then a new option to that effect would be great.

Cheers, St

Offline z9999

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 848
Re: 101.0 and 102.1-2481 linux-gcc4 bankruptcy with freeplay on
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2009, 04:03:01 PM »
Open "Player list" and press "freeplay mode" at the lowest part of the window.

Offline jamespetts

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 20774
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: 101.0 and 102.1-2481 linux-gcc4 bankruptcy with freeplay on
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2009, 07:43:30 PM »
Steffan,

in Simutrans-Experimental, the insolvency settings can be customised.

Offline whoami

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 693
Re: 101.0 and 102.1-2481 linux-gcc4 bankruptcy with freeplay on
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2009, 09:32:39 PM »
Finally I wanted to check that freeplay has any effect so I loaded the same savegame as before but without -freeplay, but it still happily goes into loan for 4 months.
Living on loan is not the same as going bankrupt (:= net worth <0), there are two different messages, and you get kicked out of the game only in the second case.

Quote
So in summary freeplay doesnt seem to have an effect on existing games whatsoever, but the docs say it should.
The Wiki entry is surely outdated in this regard. Some versions ago (which one?), the bankruptcy criterion was changed from account balance to net value of the whole company (vehicles are the assets). EDIT: Moreover, moving difficulty settings into the savegame changed the effect of several command line and config file parameters.

BTW: A vehicle's revenue needs to compensate for running costs, usage of ways and stops, and for the loss of value over time. I doubt that asset depreciation is included in the vehicles' profitability overview, same for assigning costs for road usage etc..

in Simutrans-Experimental, the insolvency settings can be customised.
I tried ST-exp V3.11 with a savegame from ST-main, and got a huge drop (50%, in comparison) of revenue, but didn't go bankrupt when net worth went below zero. (I guess that I need to set a parameter to change the latter.) However, the tight credit limit completely stopped me from doing anything (building, buying) to improve the situation (BTW: deleting stuff like roads, houses and trees is still possible). So, interest, QoS and some other differences in ST-exp make the game even harder in the beginning, when I already have to struggle the most. I prefer changes that make the game more challenging when money is not a big issue any more.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 10:37:59 PM by whoami »

Offline prissi

  • Developer
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 10633
  • Languages: De,EN,JP
Re: 101.0 and 102.1-2481 linux-gcc4 bankruptcy with freeplay on
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2009, 09:45:44 PM »
The vehicles diminishing return values are files under assets but not under running costs, since they are not real losses.

Offline whoami

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 693
Re: 101.0 and 102.1-2481 linux-gcc4 bankruptcy with freeplay on
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2009, 10:36:59 PM »
I wanted to point out: revenue has to pay for vehicle purchase, too, but that component is not directly visible to the player. In ST-main, only the speed bonus forces the player to replace vehicles, they can run forever otherwise. The main problem is: will the company's net value drop too fast in the beginning, will the player run out of time?
If revenue covers running costs, but does not compensate for the other parts, the economical alternative may be to sell the vehicle as soon as possible. Of course, infrastructure will still cause costs, but there may be better use for its limited capacity, and it can be demolished, too.

Offline steffen

  • *
  • Posts: 78
Re: 101.0 and 102.1-2481 linux-gcc4 bankruptcy with freeplay on
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2009, 05:03:35 PM »
Thanks, changing freeplay in the players menu worked, so it's just the CLI parameter that doesnt work, I'll edit the wiki with that and the net value thing.

Simutrans-experimental: Just about to try that now :) I read about the changes to bankruptcy and the credit system in some scroogle results and it looks like a great idea!

Offline steffen

  • *
  • Posts: 78
Re: 101.0 and 102.1-2481 linux-gcc4 bankruptcy with freeplay on
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2009, 10:36:46 AM »
I just wanted to update the wiki with the changes to freeplay but I can't find how to create an account. Feeling a bit stupid but could someone point me in the right direction? :)

Offline whoami

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 693
Re: 101.0 and 102.1-2481 linux-gcc4 bankruptcy with freeplay on
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2009, 11:06:55 PM »
See here: Dirk Burkholz may give you an account.