Author Topic: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!  (Read 53366 times)

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Offline Severous

Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #105 on: July 03, 2009, 05:36:43 PM »
Nice outcome LeifInge..very nice.
Regards
Sev.

Offline hApo

Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #106 on: July 03, 2009, 08:21:00 PM »
Oh, LeifInge is master, i think that he won his competition. xD
And please, could you upload the save?

Offline Severous

Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #107 on: July 03, 2009, 11:10:26 PM »
Upgraded the paddle steamer passenger ships(x4) with a modern liner. 



Soon after the paddle cargo ships could also be upgraded.



Elsewhere though the Airports are hopeless.  Changed the passenger planes, and did some airmail. Fully loaded and they are loss making.  Going to try mail on the ships next.
Regards
Sev.

Offline Optimix

Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #108 on: July 04, 2009, 02:14:46 AM »
Finished the challenge myself :)

39667 people and 3747007,11 Net Wealth


WOW! Amazing!
Can you upload your sve?
I would like to watch how you fixed that.
Congratulations.

Offline LeifInge

Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #109 on: July 04, 2009, 08:41:46 PM »
Hi, I will upload my save, but it will some days before I'm at the computer with the file on.
But i can easaly sum up some of the things I did:

- 4 railroads from Randaberg to Stavanger to Haugesund to Sandnes (In the last years I also built a line from randaber to Egersund and Sola) These lines were served by Kihas
- Then I built bus lines in all the cities and to all tourism and industry. So that I could transport all passengers avilable - and got no "No Route"
- Then I carefully expanded my network every time there were a new building outside my station coverage.
- I also bought new Kihas to prevent to many passengers waiting.
- Then I expanded with mailservice early. Again to make sure the as many as possible were transported, and making sure that the cities grew. Here i used mailtrucks and one train covering all four train stations.

So my key tactic was to quickly get maximum coverage, and carefully making sure that eveyone got transported. IMO kiha is an excellent train for transporting people in the 1930s. When I got maximum coverage the number of passengers grew, and my earnings aswell, and I allway tried not get to much overcapacity, but bought new venichles when needed.

Offline Severous

Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #110 on: July 05, 2009, 02:03:27 AM »
Hi

Ive made the north<>south connection by ship.  I had tried Air...but that's hopeless.  In the screenshot below the plane is taking off on its last flight. It will be scrapped and the airports ripped up.

I had overlooked the mail barge for years.  Instead a couple of passenger ferries had the mail conversion so they could also carry post. But it wasn't enough.  I hope the post barge is profitable..there it is in the bottom left corner of the screenshot...steaming north up the sea on its maiden voyage to Pagoda stop (it subsequently proved to be the case).



My overall design is:  Do everything. Industries are all connectted and limited power supply is directed where it is most needed.  Mail has been carried for years.  A HQ has been built (increased population).

Regards
Sev.

Offline Severous

Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #111 on: July 05, 2009, 04:36:02 PM »
Hi

A few pictures.

These must be rare rubbish eating cows.  Something like that anyway...enough to draw a crowd of onlookers.

Sola had a rural look about it back then.  Cows, a field and even an allotment patch growing vegtables.  Why do monuments always have roads around them when built?  They don't last long in my world as unnecessary roads are removed to make room for buildings.

What is it about the people in this world!  Whats so fascinating about rubbish.

Seriously though..these waste industries in PAK128 seem to produce many more passengers than the number on their description suggests they should.

My HQ had been in Egursund..but when it was time for upgrade it was decided to build it in the space between the towns Bryne and Stravanger. There was good transport...and boy doesn't there need to be.  Loads of passengers generated by this structure.  Filled with pride everytime I look at it whilst I tweak the transport in the area.


The industrial centre of Ragoland. The Steel Mill and marshalling yards where Ore, Coal, Planks and steel all pass.  Not always at the same time like here.!  Conjestion was partly self made...I had just purchased my first 100kph train for the passengers and Mail train that runs from here.  I wanted it to have a clear run so held up a few freight trains to let it pass.  The result is this almost grid lock.  A tribute to Simutrans designers..it all worked correctly and cleared without any helping hands.


Currently have 40,000 people and €9million net wealth.  This is the refinery/factory area.  The cargo bull ship is earning speed bonus for plastics and goods. It travels loaded in both directions between refinery and factory.  Good profits.  You can just see my Suez canal in the bottom left that allows ships to cross between lake and sea.


Regards
Sev.

Offline Matthi205

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Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #112 on: July 06, 2009, 07:42:16 AM »
Yeah,most of the people want to go to the rubbish stations.Really,that happened to me on all my tries to play Rogaland to the end.
The Green Mage of Darkness living in the summer hell and in the country where it snows till May with -21 *C  ;D

Offline Optimix

Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #113 on: July 06, 2009, 09:45:51 PM »
Is the Ragoland Challenge still open? :-)

I have a new result.
40634 population and 6,9 net health.

I worked for the first time with mail too.
Untill now I could not find out, how to handle mail
with trains, but now I discovered how to do that.
The mail definitly helps the growth of the population.

I constructed a ring line with a direct connection between
the 8 cities. To avoid stupid travels, there is a service
in both directions.

It was fun to watch, that I got about 35 new industries
in August 1944. I did not have time to do something
with that anymore.

Here are the screens:









Offline Severous

Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #114 on: July 07, 2009, 06:25:23 AM »
Nice result Optimix!

New industries. Now thats interesting.  Not had anything new pop up myself and my population total is 43,000 (by 1943)
Regards
Sev.

Offline Matthi205

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Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #115 on: July 07, 2009, 01:12:54 PM »
Congrats,Severous!You got Moderator!(I won't get,I'm too bad at thinking what to do,without making polls and posting) :D
The Green Mage of Darkness living in the summer hell and in the country where it snows till May with -21 *C  ;D

Offline Optimix

Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #116 on: July 08, 2009, 01:16:43 AM »
Nice result Optimix!

New industries. Now thats interesting.  Not had anything new pop up myself and my population total is 43,000 (by 1943)

Thanks for the compliment Severous!

Really unbelievable and amazing that you are at
43.000 in 1944. Perhaps you will reach 50.000!
I think you are a very very patient man.
Is that right? It seems to me that you play
very quiet, and carefully. 

Offline Severous

Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #117 on: July 08, 2009, 06:22:50 AM »
Here I was thinking dark thoughts about Optimix.  Did he have different settings or configuration that caused the industries to appear? 

But no...what ever the trigger for new industries is, its happened to me also now.  And just when I thought I could let the game run on without constant tweaking and micromanagement.

I was in the middle of reorganising the oil lines by making one big refinery station rather than two.  But now new industries are all over the place. I will never get this finished as I try to link them all up.


All those new industries at one time. Why?  It left me feeling annoyed and irritated.  Surely it would have been more realistic to have one or two pop up..not 32.

After connecting most for passenger and mail, the unthinkable happened.  Another load of industries appeared. :(  I almost want to give up now.



I'm not going to bother with it all.  Just the passengers and mail from those easier to connect perhaps.  I really need to get this finished so I can move onto something new.
Regards
Sev.

Offline LeifInge

Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #118 on: July 08, 2009, 08:07:45 AM »
The reason that its so many is proparbly because SimuTrans allways create a whole supplyline... From raw materials to finished goods.

Offline Optimix

Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #119 on: July 08, 2009, 02:59:22 PM »
Here I was thinking dark thoughts about Optimix.  Did he have different settings or configuration that caused the industries to appear? 


Well, I really hope you never will have these dark thoughts
in the future! :-)) Of course I do not change settings,
because the fun of the challenge would be gone then.
I also hope that it is impossible to change anyting in these
saved games, like player change is disabled too.

I have a problem with industries too. Here it is always only
2 possibilities: OR enormous masses of stuff waiting with
overcrowded stations OR nothing is happening. As an example:
the steelfactory produces extremely many steel, and just at
the time if you have bought 25 long trains to transport this
all, everything stops for months, with the fun of a file of
25 empty steel-trains, disturbing other traffic. The sawmill
too: it produces so much that 200 cars are not enough :-))

A question: do you think that heavy industry transporting has
an effect on the general population?
2d question: do I see right on the pic of your map, that
Stavenger is not connected with other cities, and that it
is growing only by transporting people in the city itself?


Offline Severous

Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #120 on: July 08, 2009, 07:10:09 PM »
My dark thoughts were not aimed at Optimix's character..but at the possibility that a configuration setting or modified setting somewhere may have been unintentionally left in play during this save.  Ive participated in many such similar games where so many players have designed and installed their favourite vehicles or tweaked this or that..its impossible to keep track of whats different about their version to everyone elses.  Anyhow..its happened to me..and will to others...so much industry appearing at once. Not good.

Industries chains I understand.  But not what causes them to spawn so unrealistically.  I'm used to similar games, from as long ago as 10 years ago, where industry changed in the game in a logical sort of way.  Not so here. Well not so far in my limited experience. It would not seem unreasonable to have a 5% per month chance of just one random industry (obey era) change per month, to appear, increase, decrease, or disappear. Doesn't have to be a complete chain but does have logic that tends to align production and demand across the map.

As for the two questions:
1) Heavy transport itself doesn't effect population directly but does:
- produce various goods that get consumed in towns.  Like at our shopping mall. Our planks, chemicals and steels produce piece goods and keeping the shop supplied does have a small positive effect on city growth of Sandes.
- heavy transport might limit passenger transport leading to overcrowding. That will limit growth
- rail lines etc might limit city building plots. Might that limit growth?

2) You do not see correctly :)
Stavanger and Bryne are connected to each other.
They are connected to the rest of the world via a high speed rail line to the Lake (and Ferries) and onto the Steel Mill town

I am going to post again..as this forum is poor at allowing you to type long messages.

Regards
Sev.

Offline Severous

Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #121 on: July 08, 2009, 07:27:32 PM »
Stavanger & Bryne - Passenger overcrowding..a little story.

I thought my new tram line was working ok.  One long loop with many stops seemed to be sufficient.  Passengers never seemed to be waiting.  But when I came back to look a few months later...I saw this. Many stations with passengers waiting and maximum numbers.  This is bad for growth. (I was bad at several stations that month)


What had gone wrong? My trams were all One tram pulling three cars.  They seemed to be working well when I set it up after building that HQ building.  what are you thinking right now...not enough trams..too many passengers....

And look at the impact on growth!  The gap between the dark blue line and light blue line on the graph is large..and growing.  That means lots of passengers did not travel. That's bad for growth.

To be continued..

Regards
Sev.

Offline Severous

Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #122 on: July 08, 2009, 07:38:53 PM »
..continued.

So I spent some money on tram routes. €215,010 to be exact.  The one tram loop was made into three separate loops all starting and finishing from the main station connection to the high speed railline to the outside world.


That's better.  The graphs are now how they should be for maximum growth. All (well most) passengers finding a route and a station with enough waiting room.


So what.  A typical Simutrans experience perhaps.  Well whilst I was building my last and third route I noticed the cause of the problem.


Well Ive correctted it naturally.  But that 'Bryne main stop' was originally build with a post office and one passenger stop. One passenger stop. That was ok when trams only pulled one car.  But they all pull 3 cars now so need a two tile passenger stop. This meant passengers who wanted Bryne main stop and got on elsewhere into the third and fourth cars..could never get off.  Over time the third and fourth cars of my trams were full up with passengers who wanted to go to Bryne main stop but who could not get off. This meant the trams were full, slow, yet only using two of their four cars. It was that which over time had caused the problem. One missing platform at that tram station.
Regards
Sev.

Offline Severous

Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #123 on: July 09, 2009, 09:14:15 PM »
Finished.

January 1945.
Population 48,125.
Net Wealth 14,085,227

Screenshot attached.


Summary so far attached. I will continue to update this.


Very spoilt at the end. Three sets of industry chains appeared for no apparent reason and completely swamping the map. Totally unrealistic. I hope that was a setting in this map and not something that's going to occur in every game.

Thanks for setting the challenge LeifInge.  Time to move on to another now.
Regards
Sev.

Offline Optimix

Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #124 on: July 09, 2009, 11:12:08 PM »
Congratulations!
You're the winner.
I tried to beat you today, but I had no luck.
Only 500 more than 40620.

Great challenge, hope there will be a funny new
challenge soon.

Offline Matthi205

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Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #125 on: July 10, 2009, 02:45:59 AM »
I made one,but it's not in obey era mode,because it's 64x3xxx and with 20 cities and 2 industry chains...
It's called LongChallenge because I had no better name at hand ;)
The Green Mage of Darkness living in the summer hell and in the country where it snows till May with -21 *C  ;D

Offline LeifInge

Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #126 on: July 10, 2009, 09:37:43 AM »
Very spoilt at the end. Three sets of industry chains appeared for no apparent reason and completely swamping the map. Totally unrealistic. I hope that was a setting in this map and not something that's going to occur in every game.

Thanks for setting the challenge LeifInge.  Time to move on to another now.

Hi Severous! First of all, congrats with your result! The industry spawn isn't a setting just for this map, but standard gameplay. I agree that this isn't very relistic, so I would encoruage you to start a thread about this - and add som screenshots aswell. Would be interesting to hear if its possible to change something.

Offline The Hood

Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #127 on: July 10, 2009, 09:41:12 AM »
The mass industry spawning is particularly noticable in pak128 because it has very large, complex industry chains.  Industry chains are generated by the game when a city reaches a certain population, and a new "market" (end-chain factory) is created.  This in turn creates any necessary extra factories to supply that market, and factories to supply those factories that supply the market (etc).  If the market has lots of input goods, and several stages to the chain (a lot of pak128 chains are like this) then a lot of factories are generated at a single time...

Offline VS

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Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #128 on: July 10, 2009, 10:28:09 AM »
Yup, it's a known problem and I should tackle it asap... time permitting :(

My projects... Tools for messing with Simutrans graphics. Graphic archive - templates and some other stuff for painters. Development logs for most recent information on what is going on. And of course pak128!

Offline Optimix

Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #129 on: July 10, 2009, 10:48:52 PM »
A picture for fun only :-)

Randaberg-Tau-Egersund grown together.....


Offline Severous

Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #130 on: July 11, 2009, 09:41:30 AM »
In which ever transport game I play I've always quite like the look of bulk trains carrying a mix of different cargos.
This is late in the challenge when Ive got industries all over the place resulting in cargos moving in many directions.


This taught me to build road bridges. The main freight line was disrupted by the oil lorries crossing the line and queuing on the tracks.  No trains smashing into lorries and causing a fireball as in TT.  :(
« Last Edit: July 12, 2009, 06:59:26 AM by Severous »
Regards
Sev.

Offline Dutchman on Rails

Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #131 on: July 12, 2009, 06:08:44 AM »
I would like to extend my congratulations to Severous as well. It's very impressive, especially the population growth.

The comparisons year over year help me too, because one can see the relative developments.

Regarding level crossings, there's no big fireball like in TTD and end of vehicle, that's true, but I've had it several times now that when a train is waiting at a level crossing for a passing car and I happen to pause, the train never starts moving again and I have to restart from the last save... :'(

Offline Severous

Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #132 on: July 12, 2009, 07:11:31 AM »
Thank you all.

Its good to see players participating and I hope there are others, lurking, who have also given it a go. Perhaps over time as we do more of these a few more players will 'come out' and join us.  Screenshots are the key.  Please feel free to message me if you need any assistance with putting screenshots on the forum.

Whilst the end date is past I will update the result table, for a while anyway.

For population growth I did five main things:
- participated in the forum threads on city and population growth. To understand what causes growth
- attempted total passenger and mail coverage at all times. Everything with mail and passengers connectted and serviced
- Passengers waiting in towns should never exceed stop capacity. My main hubs were outside the towns. Thousands waited there
- Made goods for the supermarket (a small plus for growth of Sandes)
- Built and upgraded the HQ
Regards
Sev.

Offline LeifInge

Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #133 on: July 12, 2009, 09:37:00 AM »
Well done Severous! I think this challenge have been very entertaining! Well done every one!

Now we have a new challenge, and hopefully more people will join the july challenge. I can also tell you all that we are working on a bigger challenge for the fall. More information will come, but I think that you should all look forward to it with joy.


Helian

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Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #134 on: July 15, 2009, 02:38:38 AM »
Regarding level crossings, there's no big fireball like in TTD and end of vehicle, that's true, but I've had it several times now that when a train is waiting at a level crossing for a passing car and I happen to pause, the train never starts moving again and I have to restart from the last save... :'(

I've always been able to get them to restart by clicking on the schedule, then exiting out of the schedule.  I once had a very busy stop attached to a refinery that would jam up at the beginning of every year for some reason, I got very good at finding which train was jaming all the others behind it.  Eventually I just added another station branch so 4 trains could be parked at once, it was really annoying since one wasn't really needed.

Offline Dutchman on Rails

Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #135 on: July 20, 2009, 05:59:17 PM »
Well, I did the same thing, and most of the time it works. But sometimes on level crossings even that doesn't get my drivers to move...

Offline Severous

Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #136 on: July 20, 2009, 09:49:44 PM »
Did you see the post in another part of the forum..about the 'b' key ?  

Press that and the reserved blocks of track/road show up in red.  If you then click on the red where the problem is it cancels the reservation and forces a new check of route.  

Its cleared a few problems..plus can be useful to watch and learn.

Edit: The summary..last version..now that DoR has finished his play of Ragoland (see separate thread)
« Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 06:11:18 PM by Severous »
Regards
Sev.

Offline Dutchman on Rails

Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #137 on: July 25, 2009, 12:50:32 PM »
Thx. Severous about the b key. I noticed one can see the reservations, but not that they can be cancelled out that way...

Offline Matthi205

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Re: June Challenge - The Rogaland Challenge!
« Reply #138 on: May 29, 2010, 01:53:26 PM »
Can someone re-upload the Rogaland-Challenge?
I re-installed the Systemof my Computer and because I maked no Backup before that the save is lost... :-[
The Green Mage of Darkness living in the summer hell and in the country where it snows till May with -21 *C  ;D