When does a delivery count towards city growth?

[Severous]

Hi

I understand that passengers, mail and goods delivered to a city helps it to grow.

Four questions if I may.

1) Can the delievery be anywhere in the town?  I'm thinking city radius is important as I'm shifting goods to a materialswholesaler which is out of town for no growth.

2) Is it the revenue earned or the number transported? e.g. Is a passenger transported 10 tiles worth less growth than one transported 100 tiles? 

3) Would two passengers each transported 50 tiles be the same total growth as one transported 100 tiles?

4) Must the delivered items want to go there?  e.g.. A passenger train stops in the centre of town, no one wanted to come here, no one gets off, but I earn money. Any growth?  Similar question, except this time the passengers needed to get here to catch a connecting service to their ultimate destination. Any growth?

Thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide.

[Combuijs]

1) I don't know for sure. My hunch is that the place where factory workers come from will be considered as the delivery town

2) Number transported from a station, no matter where they go to.

3) Two is more than one (but their source count, not their destination)

4) No, it has to originate from there

[Severous]

Thank you Combuijs.

So when i transport them two tiles to a nearby station that would count just as much as half way around the world!

And if I then moved them another two tiles that would count also as again being transported from a station?

To an extreme..if I move 100 tiles by going 50 stations, each 2 tile apart, then I get 50 lots of growth?

[jamespetts]

What counts for growth is the proportion of passengers that are taken to their destinations. So, if there are 1,000 passengers per month generated, but only 200 get to their destination, then the factor of growth from passengers is 20%. If there are 500 passengers per month generated, and 200 get to their destination, then the growth from passengers is double at 40%. Likewise with goods: it is the proportion of demanded goods received by consumer industries in towns (shops, petrol garages, and the like) that counts towards town growth. The revenue and distance of transport are irrelevant. This applies both to Simutrans-Standard and Simutrans-Experimental.

[Severous]

Thank you jamespetts.

Hmm.  So we have different opinions on what counts. Combuijs talks of pick up, jamespetts of delivery.  Both are clear its numbers that count not revenue/distance.

For now I'm thinking that:
- Passengers need to get somewhere. Once we have them in our network we only get 'growth' once. And that 'once' is when we deliver them to their ultimate end destination. Intermediate stations don't count.
- Goods. Materialwholesalers need so much per month.  Keep them fully fed for maximum growth.


This suggests the answers are:
1) You have to deliever to the end destination. Not a waypoint nor intermediate stop , nor pick up.

2) Numbers transported. More of those that are available that you move the merrier.

3) 2 is more than 1. Distance doesn't count towards growth.

4) Deliever only to where items are wanted.

Bringing it all together....If a passenger occurs..move them. Build transport systems to deliver as many as possible of the available passengers where they want to go.   

Don't build additional stations as that brings in more passengers. Just transport all those you already have for better growth.

I don't see any exploits here using intermediate stations and complex routes.  Indeed this seems to encourage delivery as efficiently as possible. 

Not sure now about the super sized single station that is extended to cover a whole city.  It means fewer passengers as there are no journeys inside the city. But if you can transport those few intercity passengers you will be achieving a high % transported..so get high growth. 

Do players own playing experience led them to think its easier to grow a city with just a single station (covering whole city) or having multiple stations ?

[Combuijs]

So we have different opinions on what counts. Combuijs talks of pick up, jamespetts of delivery.

That 's not different, it's the same (in normal Simutrans that is, not in Simutrans Experimental). Once a passenger is picked up, he will be delivered, though it might take some time. At the time of delivery the passenger's origin is not known.

[Severous]

Hi.

I'm still learning to play and like to really understand this detail.

With over 300,000 units of goods and passengers in storage in my game (and growing) the difference between 'pick up' and 'delivery' is not small. I want to understand the effect I am having on city growth with my stockpiles.

I found some posts by jamespetts with extracts of code. Its suggests its neither delivery nor pick up that directly matters. (Both are indirect influences). Ive revised my understanding of city growth s follows.

Passengers (Mail works the same) :Its coverage!

- 100% of the city buildings covered by stops with capacity for more passengers to wait
- 100% of passenger locations on the map connectted by routes (not too many changes)
- Any less than 100% on either and you are not getting 100% of possible city passengers so not achieving max city growth.

As soon as a passenger turns up you have the growth effect.  What you do with them is immaterial. They don't need to complete their journey..ever.  They can rot in the city! Overcrowding will stop future ones appearing though. (Thus an Indirect need to pick them up and move them away..anywhere)

Goods: Deliver goods.
The Materialswholesaler 'sells' goods..one at a time, every few seconds of playing time. If there is one in stock then that's great.  Provided it finds one in stock 100% of its sales attempts then that's perfect.  Delivery of goods to the Materialswholesaler (rather than pick up) is thus necessary...but its not the delivery itself that counts, not amount, distance nor speed,.just that there will be goods in stock when the Materialswholesaler wants to use (sell) one.

Thus in my game:
- I'm producing too many planks to ever be consumed.  I can profit from transporting them.  But they are never consumed.  The growing stockpile don't mater..as long as I keep the Materialswholesaler in stock.
- My ports on the coast outside the city have thousands of waiting passengers. No impact on city growth.
- My city centre canal/riverside ports have thousands of waiting passengers. These WILL be limiting growth. Prospective Passengers from nearby buildings see overcrowding so wont appear/travel. I can however continue to bus in thousands of passengers from other stops in the city. This leaves room for new passengers to appear in them (and thus help growth).

How does that sound? Am I understanding game mechanics better now? (V102)

[prissi]

The growth is determined by 50% of the ratio between happy passengers to toal passengers. A happy passenger is one who finds a route to his destination, i.e. a starting stop which is not overcrowded and a route to a stop where his destination can be reached.

Another 20% is for mail, with exactly the same criteria.

The remaining percentage is for goods. This is calculated by the fraction time a factory/shop enduser with connections to the city is actually consuming goods (i.e. storage non-empyt). It the supply last all month it is 100%, if it only works for half of the maonth it is 50% and so on.

[jamespetts]

In Simutrans-Experimental, there is also a proportion determined by electricity supply to the city.