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Author Topic: "Too heavy"  (Read 5089 times)

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Offline Izzy

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"Too heavy"
« on: August 16, 2009, 11:06:21 PM »
James,
I don't want to open new topic so I post my question here.
I've got some strange warning "To Heavy" over some of my buses an buses slow down to about 30 km/h. I've replaced them with different type and again after about 5 min warning came up again. I can't find any answer for that at help.
Could you please explain me what is that about.   
Cheers

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: "Too heavy"
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2009, 11:21:30 PM »
Izzy,

please do start a different thread if you have a different topic - makes things easier to understand :-) I have split the thread for you.

As to your question, "Too heavy" means that the vehicle's weight exceeds the weight limit for the way. In your case, the 'buses would be too heavy for the road. Try using lighter 'buses, or building a road with a higher weight limit.

Offline vilvoh

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Re: "Too heavy"
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2009, 09:02:33 AM »
Perhaps you should change the message to something more explicit like way's weight limit exceeded or similar.

Offline Colin

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Re: "Too heavy"
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2009, 09:52:41 AM »
Seems to me that this is the same problem as the Planes. One reason among many as to why I've stopped playing 'Experimental'.

Offline dantedarkstar

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Re: "Too heavy"
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2009, 11:55:17 AM »
You can always turn it off in simuconf.tab.

I did. pak128 isn't very consistent with weights and there are city buses heavier than city roads allow (which is a problem since you can't "build a better way" inside a city - it would get eaten up anyway).

[edit:]
The weight enforcement setting in simuconf.tab is:
"enforce_weight_limits="
(it's explained what to put after "=" in comments there)

Offline Colin

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Re: "Too heavy"
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2009, 01:07:29 PM »
You can always turn it off in simuconf.tab.

I did. pak128 isn't very consistent with weights and there are city buses heavier than city roads allow (which is a problem since you can't "build a better way" inside a city - it would get eaten up anyway).

[edit:]
The weight enforcement setting in simuconf.tab is:
"enforce_weight_limits="
(it's explained what to put after "=" in comments there)

Yes I was aware of this but, if you have to turn it off, what's the use of having it in the first place?

Anyway if James can name one bus anywhere(In running order) in the world that can not run on any road including a goat track I may agree with his weights.

Offline dantedarkstar

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Re: "Too heavy"
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2009, 01:52:21 PM »
The weights of vehicles AND all weight limits are actually set by the pak, so all complains about that must go to the pak makers in question. And when the paks are actually fixed so that the weight limits are sensible and consistent with vehicles available it adds to the game. Having optional feature was never a bad thing :)
I do not know why the simutrans standard supported the weight limits for ways in paks when it completely ignored them in-game, but that's probably the reason why these values are such mismatched - before simutrans experimental nobody ever could find out without digging through pak source files that they were not matching properly. If it weren't for simutrans experimental, then I would never know that there even were any weight limits defined in pak files in the first place.

From what I noticed the weight problem afflicts both pak128 (most notably some buses can't fit on city roads) and pak64 (some steam engines are heavier than any track allows). Didn't really use any other paks so I can't say for them.

Offline Izzy

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Re: "Too heavy"
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2009, 10:11:02 PM »
Sorry for that James.
I didn't now it going to be such a big issue.
But anyway Thanks for all the answers.
One thing seems to be odd for me. I understand that vehicle can be to heavy but why that massage came up after 30 min of using that vehicle and when vehicle is to heavy? Is it empty vehicle to heavy or is it load which makes vehicle to heavy. Because even if bus is empty it is still to heavy??
I don't now if that weights limits make any different to the game.
   

Offline dantedarkstar

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Re: "Too heavy"
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2009, 10:17:23 PM »
When I first loaded my old savegame into simutrans-experimental (old version 2.somehting if I remember) I found out that the weight limit is NOT checked when vehicle enters the way fragment in question. It is checked when it searches for route. So I was dumbfounded at first, when my buses stopped working (back then, without even "too heavy", it was just "can't find route"), while they were driving through all the roads just a moment ago.
I don't know if something changed since then (due to exactly the weight problems for city road in pak128 I play with weight restrictions off), but it might be related as to why they started get to heavy out of a sudden. Besides, they might be just "on the edge" with weight, so when not fully loaded they would be still within limit while loaded to full would not. Maybe they made few rounds without full load of passengers ?

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: "Too heavy"
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2009, 11:48:12 PM »
Seems to me that this is the same problem as the Planes. One reason among many as to why I've stopped playing 'Experimental'.

Might I ask - what were the other reasons?

Incidentally, Dante, to answer your last question - recent versions of Simutrans-Experimental by default set the enforce_weight_limits value to 1 rather than 2 when loading a Simutrans-Standard saved game (even when 2 is specified in simuconf.tab to prevent problems caused by enforcing the weight limits strictly in an environment not designed to cope with weight limits - people might be very confused if suddenly vehicles showed "no route" when they worked in Simutrans-Standard.

Offline Colin

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Re: "Too heavy"
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2009, 08:38:53 AM »
The weights of vehicles AND all weight limits are actually set by the pak, so all complains about that must go to the pak makers in question. And when the paks are actually fixed so that the weight limits are sensible and consistent with vehicles available it adds to the game. Having optional feature was never a bad thing :)
I do not know why the simutrans standard supported the weight limits for ways in paks when it completely ignored them in-game, but that's probably the reason why these values are such mismatched - before simutrans experimental nobody ever could find out without digging through pak source files that they were not matching properly. If it weren't for simutrans experimental, then I would never know that there even were any weight limits defined in pak files in the first place.

From what I noticed the weight problem afflicts both pak128 (most notably some buses can't fit on city roads) and pak64 (some steam engines are heavier than any track allows). Didn't really use any other paks so I can't say for them.

But why is it then that these problems with weight only appear in Experimental

Offline Colin

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Re: "Too heavy"
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2009, 08:48:50 AM »
Might I ask - what were the other reasons?

Mainly frustration with bugs I suppose. I haven't tried it since v6 (I think that was the last one I tried, or it could have been v6.1) Lack of continuation with the game due to random crashes etc. Spoilt my enjoyment of it.

Anyway I've switched back to Standard and up to now I have experienced no problems.

To be fair I will try a later version of Experimental with my Standard game, but it seems from recent posts that there are still problems.

Offline Dwachs

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Re: "Too heavy"
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2009, 09:05:53 AM »
But why is it then that these problems with weight only appear in Experimental
In standard simutrans, the weight is used for vehicle movement (ie. acceleration calculation).

Offline The Hood

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Re: "Too heavy"
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2009, 09:10:41 AM »
Weight limits on ways are set in standard, but are not used.  They are completely redundant.  That probably explains why pak maintainers (who generally have only made the paks to be compatible with standard, not experimental) haven't really been bothered about realistic values for weight limits, because they are meaningless in standard.  Experimental then applies the weight limits already present (but not used) in the standard paks, but seeing as these aren't realistic, you get the "too heavy" problem in unrealistic situations.  I agree it's annoying, but hopefully it will be ironed out with fully compatible experimental paksets in the future (e.g. look out for the release of pak128.Britain.experimental, but I'm not sure how far Jamespetts has got with adding in all the experimental features).

Offline Colin

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Re: "Too heavy"
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2009, 09:15:37 AM »
Weight limits on ways are set in standard, but are not used.  They are completely redundant.  That probably explains why pak maintainers (who generally have only made the paks to be compatible with standard, not experimental) haven't really been bothered about realistic values for weight limits, because they are meaningless in standard.  Experimental then applies the weight limits already present (but not used) in the standard paks, but seeing as these aren't realistic, you get the "too heavy" problem in unrealistic situations.  I agree it's annoying, but hopefully it will be ironed out with fully compatible experimental paksets in the future (e.g. look out for the release of pak128.Britain.experimental, but I'm not sure how far Jamespetts has got with adding in all the experimental features).

Thank you for this explanation, now it makes sense.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: "Too heavy"
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2009, 09:00:26 PM »
Mainly frustration with bugs I suppose. I haven't tried it since v6 (I think that was the last one I tried, or it could have been v6.1) Lack of continuation with the game due to random crashes etc. Spoilt my enjoyment of it.

Anyway I've switched back to Standard and up to now I have experienced no problems.

To be fair I will try a later version of Experimental with my Standard game, but it seems from recent posts that there are still problems.

I'm sorry that you've experienced crashes. It'd very much help my efforts to fix the bugs if you could report them, or else I shan't know that they are there, and will continue in blissful ignorance thinking that it's working fine and wondering why people aren't using it... :-)