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ROADS REPLACEMENT PROJECT

Started by Fabio, September 08, 2009, 09:32:29 AM

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Fabio

Quote from: fabio on August 19, 2010, 08:24:48 AM

Overall work in progress: 64%


and few work done since.

The biggest part concerns now tunnels and earlier roads.

I hope it may take less, maybe for a Release Candidate for testing.

Isaac Eiland-Hall


greephus


tony.p

Hallo fabio. Your roads are very nice. How far are with production? A how long yet abortion work?

greenling

fabio
I have be look on your picture from the new roads and Tunnels.
and must said thats you try too make good pakfiles.
here On tip for your development:
its the Development from the new Roads,tunnels,bridge and Elevated road
be closde then give your new pakfiles names they be not overwirte
old pakfiles.
new pakfiles make the simutransworld colorful and beautiful!

greenling
Opening hours 20:00 - 23:00
(In Night from friday on saturday and saturday on sunday it possibly that i be keep longer in Forum.)
I am The Assistant from Pakfilearcheologist!
Working on a big Problem!

Fabio

Finally, last weekend I resumed a bit the works.
Here's the statistics of the update:


Overall work in progress: 73%

Highways (110-200 km/h):  96%

Intercity (55-90 km/h):   50%

Urban (40-50 km/h):       64%

Rural (30 km/h):          80%

- 200 km/h: Road       (100%) + Bridge(100%)                + Elevated(100%)
- 130 km/h: Road       (100%) + Bridge(100%) + Tunnel (99%) + Elevated(100%)
- 110 km/h: Road        (90%) + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel (90%) + Elevated (90%)
-  90 km/h: Road       (100%) + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel (99%) + Elevated (50%)
-  70 km/h: Road        (80%) + Bridge (30%) + Tunnel  (0%)
-  55 km/h: Gravel Road  (0%) + Bridge  (0%)
-  50 km/h: City Road   (90%) + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel  (0%) + Elevated (90%)
-  40 km/h: Stone Road  (90%) + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel  (0%)
-  30 km/h: Dirt Road   (90%) + Bridge (70%)


130 km/h tunnel has been completely redrawn. Old tunnel will probably be used for 110 km/h.
Added elevated for 200 km/h; elevated for 90 km/h under work.
Discovered a previous version of 30 km/h bridge, almost done.
Gravel road speed will be raised to 55 km/h, for it not to be used as a city road.
I hope to release the pak for Christmas (painting time is still very few, I'm trying to make the most of it)



Zeno

Wow, it slowly grows! It would be a perfect Xmas present for the pak :)
Priceless work, fabio! :award:

Isaac Eiland-Hall

I refuse to make another post expressing my anticipated excitement.

Oh, wait, I guess I am after all. ;-)

Lawyer

Wow! It looks great! I'm really excited to see it working. Good work, fabio!
Creia no que quiser, mas não acredite no 'Fator Deus'
Believe in whatever you want, but don't believe in the 'Factor God'.
http://bulevoador.haaan.com/2010/07/04/o-fator-deus/

Fabio

No graphic updates from last post, but here I come with a comprehensive proposal for prices and maintainance.
I would ask the Game Economics experts (Zeno?) to validate them.













Speed |

Road Cost |

Road Maint. |

Bridge/Elev. Cost |

Bridge/Elev. Maint. |

Tunnel Cost |

Tunnel Maint. |

30 km/h |

12,00 Cr |

0,00 Cr |

320,00 Cr |

12,00 Cr |



55 km/h |

24,00 Cr |

1,00 Cr |

340,00 Cr |

16,00 Cr |



40 km/h |

45,00 Cr |

2,00 Cr |

380,00 Cr |

17,00 Cr |

850,00 Cr |

40,00 Cr |

50 km/h |

90,00 Cr |

4,00 Cr |

460,00 Cr |

19,00 Cr |

950,00 Cr |

42,00 Cr |

70 km/h |

170,00 Cr |

7,00 Cr |

600,00 Cr |

22,00 Cr |

1100,00 Cr |

45,00 Cr |

90 km/h |

290,00 Cr |

10,00 Cr |

810,00 Cr |

25,00 Cr |

1400,00 Cr |

48,00 Cr |

110 km/h |

460,00 Cr |

14,00 Cr |

1100,00 Cr |

29,00 Cr |

1800,00 Cr |

52,00 Cr |

130 km/h |

680,00 Cr |

17,00 Cr |

1500,00 Cr |

32,00 Cr |

2300,00 Cr |

55,00 Cr |

200 km/h |

1200,00 Cr |

24,00 Cr |

2400,00 Cr |

39,00 Cr |


These figures tend to reproduce the old ones for similar speed.
Here are the formulas used:

KR = ([1..9] / 4)^2   
    where [1..9] is the progressive number of the road, from lower to higher quality
   KR ranges from 0.0625 to 5.0625

Road_Cost = MAX(10, 40 * KR) + Speed * KR

Bridge_Cost = 300 + 1.75 * Road_Cost

Tunnel_Cost = 750 + 2.25 * Road_Cost

KM = (0.03 + (10 - [1..9]) / 100 ) / 2
    where [1..9] is the progressive number of the road, from lower to higher quality
   KR ranges from 0.06 to 0.02

Road_Maint = Road_Cost * KM
    Road_Maint is 0 for 30 km/h

Bridge_Maint = 0,05 * 300 + Road_Maint
    Road_Maint is 12 for 30 km/h (= Road Maint)
   
Tunnel_Maint = 0,05 * 750 + Road_Maint

Bridge and Tunnel costs increase less than proportionally compared to Road costs, having fixed costs of, respectively, 300 and 750 Cr.

Maintainance is relatively lower for better roads.

Here is the timeline (just as a reminder):



Zeno

Quote from: fabio on November 19, 2010, 02:36:47 PM
No graphic updates from last post, but here I come with a comprehensive proposal for prices and maintainance.
I would ask the Game Economics experts (Zeno?) to validate them.
Consider your budget approved ;)
Costs and maintenance for base roads fit perfect on current system edges, and gaps look like have good proportions. Moreover, the progression seems to be fairly logical, which I like even more than maths.
The only think I always wonder when thinking on price/mantainance costs is whether to apply or not exponential raising and which curve deepness should be used for each. I'll take a further look on that, but at the moment these numbers look very well.

Fabio

Thank you, Zeno!

If it can help you, i attach here the Excel sheet with figures and calculations...

Zeno


Fabio

By the way, 40 km/h stone city road is intentionally more expensive than 55 km/h gravel road, in order to disincentivate the use of the former outside cities.

sdog

i want to propose incresing the maintenance of the 30 km/h gravel road from 0 to any small value. Having no maintenance gives road transport quite an edge over rail, especially since the actualy driven speed has no influence on the speedboni.

An_dz

I agree with sdog, in real life even if it's gravel you need to send trators to remove the holes rain create or stop the plants from 'invading' the road and also, sometimes, put more gravel. That's how works some gravel and dirt roads here in my country.

And by the way those roads are amazing.

Zeno

I have similar opinion to you two, sdog & An_dz. Me no like zerp maintenance. I'll think about what to do about that, but I can advance I have two ideas to start with it: 1) fixed cost for all city roads, no matter speed or level 2) calculate city roads and normal roads in different process/sheet/scale/whatever (in other words, don't mix them).

Lawyer

I agree that 30km road must have some maintenance. Same maint. cost for all city roads seems pretty unfair to me, too. I was wandering if maint. costs can be calculated grouping types of alike ways (dirty, gravel and cobblestone = type 1, asphalt 70km, 90km and 110km = type 2, concrete 130km and 200km, type 3), having same maint. costs to roads of the same type. Well, fabio's model is much better then this, but it's just an idea for a different process/sheet/scale/whatever =P
Creia no que quiser, mas não acredite no 'Fator Deus'
Believe in whatever you want, but don't believe in the 'Factor God'.
http://bulevoador.haaan.com/2010/07/04/o-fator-deus/

Fabio

#123
I just revised the proposal for prices and maintainance.













Speed |

Road Cost |

Road Maint. |

Bridge/Elev. Cost |

Bridge/Elev. Maint. |

Tunnel Cost |

Tunnel Maint. |

30 km/h |

15.00 Cr |

1.30 Cr |

430.00 Cr |

18.00 Cr |

|

|

55 km/h |

55.00 Cr |

4.60 Cr |

510.00 Cr |

16.00 Cr |

|

|

40 km/h |

80.00 Cr |

2.20 Cr |

560.00 Cr |

13.00 Cr |

1,000.00 Cr |

24.00 Cr |

50 km/h |

100.00 Cr |

2.80 Cr |

600.00 Cr |

11.00 Cr |

1,100.00 Cr |

19.00 Cr |

70 km/h |

140.00 Cr |

3.90 Cr |

680.00 Cr |

12.00 Cr |

1,200.00 Cr |

21.00 Cr |

90 km/h |

270.00 Cr |

7.50 Cr |

940.00 Cr |

16.00 Cr |

1,600.00 Cr |

24.00 Cr |

110 km/h |

440.00 Cr |

12.00 Cr |

1,300.00 Cr |

21.00 Cr |

2,100.00 Cr |

29.00 Cr |

130 km/h |

520.00 Cr |

14.00 Cr |

1,400.00 Cr |

23.00 Cr |

2,400.00 Cr |

31.00 Cr |

200 km/h |

800.00 Cr |

22.00 Cr |

2,000.00 Cr |

31.00 Cr |

|

|

The values are slightly revised (some higher, some lower) and can be further tweaked.
What changed is mostly in the LOGIC behind, a bit more coherent (less coefficients).

Here are the formulas used:

Kc = [1..8]
   This is to group roads by type, as proposed above.    
   1 is for 30 km/h dirt road
   2 is for 55 km/h gravel road
   4 is for 40 and 50 km/h city roads, and for 70 km/h intercity road
   6 is for 90 km/h intercity road
   8 is for 110, 130 and 200 km/h highways

Road_Cost = (Speed * Kc) / 2

Bridge_Base = 400

Bridge_Cost = Bridge_Base + (2 * Road_Cost)

Tunnel_Base = 800

Tunnel_Cost = Tunnel_Base + (3 * Road_Cost)

Maintainance was completely re-thought.
The basic idea is that in x months the total maintainance paid will sum up to the construction cost.
In other words, after x months of maintainance the infrastructure can be considered renewed.
We need to play with the number of months.

M1 = [12..36]
   This is the number of months needed to renew the road surface
   12 months for 30 km/h dirt road and 55 km/h gravel road: in one year the weather ruins the cheap infrastructure
   36 months for all the other road types: stone or asphalt need less maintainance

M2 = [24..48]
   This is the number of months needed to renew bridges and tunnels
   24 months for 30 km/h timber bridge
   36 months for 55 and 40 km/h stone bridges and 40 km/h tunnel
   48 months for all the other bridges (concrete) and tunnels
   
Road_Maint = Road_Cost / M1

Bridge_Maint = (Bridge_Base / M2) + Road_Maint
   
Tunnel_Maint = (Tunnel_Base / M2) + Road_Maint

Some newer type infrastructures have lower maintainance than older ones, making it convenient to replace them when newer are available.
Specially, 55 km/h gravel road is rather cheap, but quite expensive to maintain.

Here's a new timetable, with costs: it shows the cost gaps in time periods:



In attachment: the updated Excel sheet.

EDIT: Added a few brackets for readability

Lawyer

Wow! Very, very cool! I liked pretty much the new way you build the maintenance costs. Great!
Creia no que quiser, mas não acredite no 'Fator Deus'
Believe in whatever you want, but don't believe in the 'Factor God'.
http://bulevoador.haaan.com/2010/07/04/o-fator-deus/


Fabio

I'm rethinking a bit tunnels layout, the rest is in an advanced stage...

Václav

If you would need some ideas, you can find them on www.structurae.de.

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní


Fabio

Here's the statistics of the update:


Overall work in progress: 88%

Highways (110-200 km/h):  90%

Intercity (55-90 km/h):   79%

Urban (40-50 km/h):       93%

Rural (30 km/h):         100%

- 200 km/h: Road       (100%) + Bridge(100%)                + Elevated(100%)
- 130 km/h: Road       (100%) + Bridge(100%) + Tunnel (60%) + Elevated(100%)
- 110 km/h: Road        (90%) + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel (60%) + Elevated (90%)
-  90 km/h: Road       (100%) + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel (80%) + Elevated (60%)
-  70 km/h: Road       (100%) + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel  (0%)
-  55 km/h: Gravel Road(100%) + Bridge (90%)
-  50 km/h: City Road   (90%) + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel (90%) + Elevated (90%)
-  40 km/h: Stone Road (100%) + Bridge (90%) + Tunnel(100%)
-  30 km/h: Dirt Road  (100%) + Bridge(100%)


As said above, tunnels are intended to be reworked.
Bridges, instead, are either completed, either in a very advanced stage.
Unfortunately, painting time is extremely short, I couldn't keep the deadline of Christmas.
However, the work to do for a pre-release is few, now.
After the pre-release, I'll add winter version too, plus all the fixes from the feedback.

Zeno

Oh, great news, fabio! We're looking forward beta-test it! ;)

VS


My projects... Tools for messing with Simutrans graphics. Graphic archive - templates and some other stuff for painters. Development logs for most recent information on what is going on. And of course pak128!


Fabio

Quote from: 123abc on February 08, 2011, 03:56:22 AM
Any update's?

- Resumed work on tunnels

- Fixes to Bridges and elevated for 110-130-200 km/h

- Reworked turns for 200 km/h

Unfortunately I paint at home and browse the forum mostly at work or by smartphone, so I don't have screenshots.
After i'll have a RC version, i'll release it together with some screenshot.

Václav

Quote from: fabio on February 17, 2011, 02:21:18 PM
After i'll have a RC version, i'll release it together with some screenshot.
Finally.  :D
I hope it will be very soon.

Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní

Fabio

Honestly, I hope it too! :)

I've been working on them for almost one year and the first stub is even older...
I can't wait to get away with it!!!



February 18, 2011

Actually, the first trials date back to September 2009. And with more experience, also part already done had to be reworked to get improved.

I want to share with you an accident occurred last night.
The XCF source file got corrupted from last save, so apparently I lost all the updates listed two posts ago. Gosh, I had a choke! Last backup was January, 29th! In the end, I recovered it all from the exported PNG i use to test the objects in game. I had to tweak the images a bit, in order to split everything in the appropriate layer, but now the source is back, backupped, and a little bit more has been done.

Fabio

OK, good news on the topic :)

The summer version of all roads, bridges and tunnels is now in a pre-release status.

Still snow layer to be added, but I could say a test version should be made available soon-- together with some screenshots.

Zeno


123abc

Can I please test it for you?

Václav


Chybami se člověk učí - ale někteří lidé jsou nepoučitelní