[PATCH] Powerline Tunnels

[The Transporter]

What is the actual state of the patch?

[prissi]

Needs lot of work and have some issues.

[The Transporter]

Ok, Thanks a lot

[kierongreen]

It was more or less ok to go in trunk, but that was over a year ago. I'd have said then that it could have gone in and issues would have been sorted out in time. Now I'd imagine that it'd take a fair bit of work to bring it up to latest revision.

[The Transporter]

Is the work on this patch canceled?

[kierongreen]

It was never seen fit to include it despite it being stable. I will look at this and try to get it compiling again with latest trunk. My has changed since this was first made, namely underground slopes are completely functional now.

Issues regarding transformers were never resolved - to my mind at least initially this can wait and worked around.

[greenling]

kierongreen
the Simutransgame be need powerline Tunnels.
And undergrundtransformer need we too.
It´s not be cheap too install a powerline on a in a city laying factory.
Vilvoh
thank you that you want paint new grafics.

[prissi]

Actually, the reason this was not included was not as much the code but rather the issue of underground transformers. But this was one of there first oatches every published, so it might be very very broken by now.

[kierongreen]

It will be hugely out of date, hence I'll look at it again.

Now we have a sliced underground view it should be possible to place objects at a particular 3d point. In which case would requiring a transformer to be the layer directly underneath a factory be good? Then question is how to easily show factory is powered (or do you rely on factory information screen for this?

Thoughts...

[rsdworker]

It will be hugely out of date, hence I'll look at it again.

Now we have a sliced underground view it should be possible to place objects at a particular 3d point. In which case would requiring a transformer to be the layer directly underneath a factory be good? Then question is how to easily show factory is powered (or do you rely on factory information screen for this?

Thoughts...

sounds good - its would be easy to check that power is connected by checking a factory is on or off - a small symbol would be good idea

[Dwachs]

Some time ago, I updated the patch and try to enhance it. I have to see, whether I can find it somewhere. The reason why I did no further work was that crossings of powerlines and ways underground would require a lot of code duplication.

Edit: Seems that I lost it :(

[Fabio]

They shouldn't be supposed to cross underground, except on different levels (then no crossing anyway).
Or I didn't get what's the issue?

[Dwachs]

Powerline tunnels = underground cables. Why should they not be allowed to cross ways by eg going underneath?

[Fabio]

Because "under them" means in the lower level, IMHO.
1) the way is already at the bottom of the file, going under means therefore going to the lower level.
2) cables for medium and high tension (15 kV or more), for industrial usage as we simulate in the game, are much better insulated than lower tension ones (110-220-380 V). Whereas the latter can share a tunnel with roads and tracks (but are not simulated here), the former are usually laid in service tunnels or in bare earth, and if they cross a road tunnel they need to be moved above or below it.
3) power lines don't suffer performance losses going up or down a slope, so keeping them on separated levels would simplify the code with no negative impact.
4) I can't imagine the graphics for underground cables crossing a road or a railway

[VS]

Underground transformers can be entirely omitted. Just build a normal one on surface, and bring the cable below it... No?

(I mean... whether transformers can be underground or not can become a separate question from cables.)

[Václav]

Seeing this topic it reminds me I have plan to paint cable set for transportation of electricity - but at first I need any idea what face to give it.

And of course, I don't think that underground transforming stations are needed. All what is needed is special transforming station for cables (really? it would be better but ... current ones may be used), own cables (only with basic tiles - like high wires have) and tunnel entrances.

[The Transporter]

This sounds good. Underground transformer oder underground connectingstations are realy helpfull in cities.

[kierongreen]

Progress report:
Underground power lines are now working (again) and slopes are also supported. Still to resolve issues regarding maintenance and costs on build/demolition, disabling underground way/powerline crossings which currently cause a crash and allowing underground transformers.

[The Transporter]

This sounds realy good!

[Fabio]

Just an idea: transformers are presently standalone buildings.
Change them to stations, so that you can build them ON power line tiles (maybe hiding them), and underground transformers could be there easily!

Instead, if you let them the way you are, the ability to be built underground could later be applied to normal extension buildings as well...

[Dwachs]

Unfortunately, transformers are very much different from any building implementation-wise.

[kierongreen]

Maintenance issues resolved and underground powerline way crossings blocked. Transformers can now be built underground and linked but this is quite buggy at the moment so trying to get it stabilised before releasing a version.

[Combuijs]

Interesting news!

[prissi]

I still would say that the typical transformer should be only above ground. Those in simutrans are rather Those which connect whole cities to the grid and are almost ever overground, even with underground cables.

[The Transporter]

Yes and no.
They are overground, because they are old. Newer Station are build often in the Underground (Example: Frankfurt)

[kierongreen]

By allowing powerlines (and transformers) to be constructed underground players are given a choice for connecting industries:
On the surface can involve high initial costs demolishing buildings but relatively cheap costs for construction and maintenance of the power line.
Underground will (pakset dependent) have high costs for both construction and maintenance of powerlines. However by keeping the surface free for development this potentially increases passenger numbers and revenue. Also looks prettier if you feel that's worth the extra cash!

Real life is similar rural and less wealthy areas may well have surface power lines - in developed urban areas these are often buried.


Regarding voltages of powerlines and transformers - industries used in simutrans vary wildly from small shops which are likely to use little more than domestic supply, through to oil refineries that would need a direct connection to a high voltage supply. My thoughts are that costs should be set so that economically speaking players to use surface connections except where absolutely necessary. If players choose to sacrifice some profit to preserve a town centre then they have the freedom to do that of course.

[Fabio]

Adding a consideration: underwater tunnels are/must be the only way too connect the power grids of different continents, as the bridge span must be rather limited.

[Ters]

What's a continent? None of my maps have been anywhere near big enough to span multiple continents. They're hardly big enough to cover a single country.

[Fabio]

Probably wrong word. I mean land masses separates by a large span of open sea. Islands would be a better word, but I wanted to differentiate the notion from that of smaller offshore islands. Anyway a power line bridge would look excessive for any span poof water larger than 6-8 tiles.

[mEGa]

I'm very interesting to this idea. I want to purpose a adapted graphic of this powerline. Specially to transport energy through ocean or big lake.
on this sight, You can see a tubular powerline to transport energy, a relay on crossing line and a special transfprmer under a tile where is factory for example.

[Václav]

mEGa, I am sure that it would be great but also I think that it should not be so simple - regardless of it will be in underground and so nice face is not so important like if it would be surface utility.

[kierongreen]

Patch attached. Appears to be stable but surely needs more testing. I think I've removed any unintentionally included files in this patch.

Features:
*powerline tunnels can be built in similar manner to way tunnels, slopes are supported.
*transformers can now be placed on factories when underground mode is enabled - this builds a transformer below the factory tile selected if this is free
*to assist in locating factories in underground mode when transformer tool is selected factory outlines are shown, blue is unconnected power station, turquoise is connected power station, red is unconnected power consumer, orange is connected power consumer, green is active power consumer.
*underground powe llines can begin from underground transformers as well as existing underground power lines

You will need to add line to menuconf.tab in section specialtools after bridges(128). Be sure that numbers match those in your pakset and remember to renumber following entries in the special tools menu.

Code Select Expand


toolbar[10][7]=tunnels(128)


pak attached for 128 sizes, see top of thread for 64 sized image

Example dat:

Code Select Expand

Obj=tunnel
Name=PowerTunnel
waytype=power
cost=100000
maintenance=5000
intro_year=1950
menupos=-10
cursor=powerline-tunnel.1.3
icon=> powerline-tunnel.1.2

FrontImage[N]=powerline-tunnel.0.0
FrontImage[S]=powerline-tunnel.0.2
FrontImage[E]=powerline-tunnel.0.3
FrontImage[W]=powerline-tunnel.0.1

[greenling]

looks very nice out kierongreen.

[Combuijs]

Nice, I hope this can be included in Simutrans standard!

[The Transporter]

Thanks for this work!
I hope it will be part of Simutrans.