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Offline hellmade

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Coal Truck
« on: September 09, 2008, 08:57:28 AM »
hi,


the package contains a coal trailer that is able tu run a 120 kph but non of the bigger Trucks is able to pull this trailer. So the max-speed of a convoj including the trailer is 80 kph.

Was this intended?

Offline Zeno

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2008, 09:15:54 AM »
Well, I don't know the intention of who created it, but actually I think the limit of the trailer is only affected by its properties (the trailer has its own weight, resistante, etc), so for me there's no matter if exists or not a truck capable of pulling it... Maybe it would be better to ask the author  :)

Offline hellmade

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2008, 09:22:12 AM »
its not the speedof the trailer that busses me but the speed of the convoi since there are bigger trucks that could pull this trailer (and some of the other, too)

it seems to me that when introducing pak128 connecting the bulk trailers to the bigger trucks simply was forgotten.

Offline Zeno

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2008, 09:31:20 AM »
Well, this lack of precission might be provoked by different people making different vehicles and after some time, the vehicles were put all together in the same pak...  ::)
it seems to me that when introducing pak128 connecting the bulk trailers to the bigger trucks simply was forgotten.
Well, to connect trailers and trucks is necessary to rebuild the truck's trailer's pak (you have to tell the trailer who can/can't pull it), and sometimes it's not possible to recode them (missing sources and so)...



What I have just discovered is that after 2005 there are no trucks that can pull any coal trailer...  ??? Is that what you meant?
« Last Edit: September 09, 2008, 09:37:59 AM by Zeno »

Offline hellmade

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2008, 10:01:35 AM »
True.
That is one result of the missing connections, too.

Offline Zeno

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2008, 10:08:08 AM »
Then we should contact the authors of the trailers, and see if still are available png and dat files...
I think we should allow the "TS Bulk Cargo Trailer", that is the last bulk trailer in the game cronology, to be pulled by latest trucks... And to do that we should ask Patrick and/or timeshock for the png & dat, to be included in next release  :)

Offline DirrrtyDirk

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2008, 10:47:45 AM »
If it is part of standard pak128 the pak-maintainers have access to all sources and can do something about it - so you don't need to find the original creator.

Offline Zeno

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2008, 10:59:47 AM »
Then it will be easier :)  If any help is needed from me, here I am... ::)

Offline wernieman

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2008, 11:36:17 AM »
Do you now the Name of the coal trailer?

Edit:
O.K. I found him ... I think the Error ist the 120 ....

It must be 80. The "PMNV_"-Truck of the Intro Year 1951 have the same Max-Speed ....
« Last Edit: September 09, 2008, 11:47:33 AM by wernieman »

Offline Zeno

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2008, 11:50:49 AM »
Well. The coal trailers in simutrans are:
  • Shorty Bulk Trailer. Available from 12/1964. Never retires.
  • PMNV Mack Bulk Trailer 22. Available from 2/1951. Retires on 9/1962.
  • TS Light Bulk Cargo Trailer. Available from 9/1962. Retires on 10/1976.
  • TS Bulk Cargo Trailer. Available from 10/1976. Retires on 6/1981.

I think there aren't any more bulk trailers (IE. for transporting coal). So after june/1981 we only got the first one (and it's a short trailer!!!), so I figure something happened something with those intro/retire dates. Or we should remove retiring date for the last one, or there is a trailer missing after this one... Actually, the last one can't be pulled by any truck after the PMNV International Cabover. The names in bold are the names of the vehicles I see when I change language to English.

I think the Error ist the 120 .... It must be 80.
I Agree. Same dates, different speeds.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2008, 11:52:54 AM by Zeno »

Offline PatrickN

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2008, 01:54:32 AM »
I noticed several trailers appear at a certain date with no truck to pull them.  They must be pulled by a farm tractor.  I've been finding a lot of problems that need work.  Pak128 was made just as a time line were possible and before a speed bonus existed, and it just wasn't adapted to current versions of simutrans.

Offline Zeno

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2008, 07:09:32 AM »
Then, maybe I'll take a look to trucks & trailers before I restart any of my stopped projects... ::)

Offline wernieman

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2008, 07:14:23 AM »
When you can help us for a Timeline /Priseline for the Truks in PAK128, it would be wonderfull!

If you have Problem, then ask VS. When you need read and/ore write acess for the svn, then ask me....

Offline Zeno

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2008, 12:02:58 PM »
I'm trying to draw a new trailer, a modern one, just to ensure there is a modern road vehicle capable of transporting bulk goods after 1981. By now, I've almost finished the blender structure (yes, that's been easy n quick!), and I'll deal tomorrow with the textures and so... By now I plan to make it pullable by any truck (or as many as possible). After that, IF I ever finish it (can't promise), I will of course let it to be included in the official pak... I know nothing of that process, but don't care: I'll ask when needed ;)

Offline Zeno

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2008, 03:51:02 PM »
I want to make some tests, but I'm thinking that, if I'm right, both the trailer and the truck need to have coded their previous and next constraints so they can be used together... so if I make a new trailer... I'll also need to add a next constraint to the (existing) trucks I want to be capable of pulling it. Am I right?

Offline wernieman

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2008, 03:55:53 PM »
With the used coding "yes"

But it is "no problem" ;o)

Offline DirrrtyDirk

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2008, 04:19:44 PM »
Either that, or you could replace one of the other trailers with yours...

Offline Zeno

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2008, 04:27:22 PM »
Either that, or you could replace one of the other trailers with yours...
Mmmm... I don't think so, current trucks are nice!! And they're already done!  ;D
I'll draw a bulk trailer and then I'll get back to my planes. I still have a lot of work with them!!!

Offline DirrrtyDirk

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2008, 04:29:30 PM »
I was just thinking for testing purposes - not for the long term!

Offline Zeno

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2008, 04:34:13 PM »
Sure, now i get it ;)  I'll probably try later.

Offline Zeno

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2008, 06:54:03 PM »
Still have to draw many details (wheels, supports, cargo) but here is the first demo. Do you like the hopper texture? Looks a bit grainy, but it's a container photo UV-mapped... I thought it could give it a more realistic touch ::)

Offline VS

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2008, 08:33:55 PM »
Not bad :) Remember to render with all the cargo textures:

Coal
Iron ore
Stone
Sand
Fertilizer
Waste

Offline Zeno

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2008, 09:10:00 PM »
IRL this trailer is covered with a piece of plastic/fabric, so you can't see which cargo is full of... I still don't know what I'm going to do with that... :-\

Offline DirrrtyDirk

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2008, 10:35:25 PM »
Well, if you want to do it that way, you could have differently colored canvas for the different goods, and for the empty image have the canvas removed or rolled up... it's up to you.

Offline Zeno

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2008, 02:38:39 PM »
Well... I think drawing is finished. I think it's nice enough, and it's tested and working ok.
Data is what I think more equilibrated, it's intended to be a heavy trailer for massive road bulk transport, at not very high speed, and heavy enough to need a big pulling truck. It's based on a real Doepker Triple Hopper trailer. Anyway, the name, obviously is provisional (was the quickest way of testing it); other data may also be tuned. Fertilize transport is covered with a greenish dark canvas.

I leave it here so if all you want to test you can. Hope you like it! Now it would be nice to attach it to current trucks, cause I'm not thinking in drawing any; but that's not in my hand... :D

PS: Attached jpeg, because png is too large  :'( If needed just ask for it!



Edit: Changed order in DAT file. Now fertilizer (greenish cover) is good number zero.
Edit: Now PNG is here
« Last Edit: September 11, 2008, 08:22:07 PM by Zeno »

Offline Zeno

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2008, 02:43:47 PM »
I attach pak for anyone can test...  8)

Attention: This vehicle is made in substitution of a current vechicle, because is just for testing purpose!!!

Better thought... if want to test it, send me a pm. Don't want a non-official pak running off my hands ;)
« Last Edit: September 11, 2008, 03:56:04 PM by Zeno »

Offline prissi

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2008, 06:52:58 PM »
Since the default image for unknow freight is good zero, I would suggest to use the green plastic cover image for freight 0 in the dat. Others than that quite bright and shine  and nice

Offline Zeno

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2008, 07:22:29 PM »
Since the default image for unknow freight is good zero, I would suggest to use the green plastic cover image for freight 0 in the dat.
You mean to put fertilizer in the second row or suggest to be used for empty cargo?  ???

Offline VS

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2008, 07:26:09 PM »
Nope, just reorder the goods versions in DAT so that the "incognito" one is first.

You have references to goods, indexed 0,1,2,... and the first is used also for cargos that do not have associated picture, so you want to have as first something vague.

Offline Zeno

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2008, 07:35:38 PM »
Ok, thanks. I edit and change the attachment above, just a second  ;D

Offline Frank

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2008, 08:09:33 PM »
...
PS: Attached jpeg, because png is too large  :'( If needed just ask for it!
....

for temporary upload see here

Offline Zeno

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2008, 08:21:25 PM »
Thanks Frank. Btw nice tool... didn't know about it!
Edit and posted original PNG above, just next to DAT file!!

Offline Zeno

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2008, 01:51:02 PM »
I see in last Pak version that the coal trailer that had 120kmh max speed has been corrected and now shows 80kmh. But after 1981 there is no trailers for bulk goods... Already decided what is gonna be done about it? Is it going to be corrected in some way?

Offline DirrrtyDirk

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2008, 01:58:31 PM »
What do you mean with "there is none" - do they all retire by that point (that would be a bug - and that could easily be corrected) or ist that no new ones appear after that time?

Offline Zeno

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #34 on: September 16, 2008, 02:07:01 PM »
What do you mean with "there is none" - do they all retire by that point (that would be a bug - and that could easily be corrected) or ist that no new ones appear after that time?
The last one retires at that point. I don't know if it's a bug in that one or if it's missing a trailer... anyway, you can take a look at the top of the topic, I think I detailed models, dates and so.

Offline DirrrtyDirk

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2008, 02:15:37 PM »
You are right.

Also the speed of the last 2 trailers are mixed up, I think. The latest one has 90, the one before that 100km/h... should be the other way round, I think.

Will exchange both speeds and remove the retire date from the last one for now.


EDIT:
done in r123
« Last Edit: September 16, 2008, 02:23:18 PM by DirrrtyDirk »

Offline wernieman

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #36 on: September 16, 2008, 02:18:48 PM »
did somebody make a plan about the trucks/trailers?


Offline DirrrtyDirk

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #37 on: September 16, 2008, 02:24:37 PM »
No plan yet (that I know of) - just repairing issues on a day-by-day and report-to-report basis so far...

Offline Zeno

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2008, 02:41:23 PM »
Somewhere in this topic there's a nice (:-*) heavy trailer, with png and dat... if you want to take it you can  ;D
Anyway I won't paint a truck for it!

Offline wernieman

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #39 on: September 16, 2008, 02:52:35 PM »
I see and testet it ... but without a plan ore timelineplan .....

Offline DirrrtyDirk

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #40 on: September 16, 2008, 03:55:15 PM »
Well I can sure add it - what did VS say about SVN? "It's a time machine after all"  ;)

EDIT: By the way, the trucks in pak128 don't use any constraint[next] at all - so no changes are required there for your trailer to work.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2008, 04:19:39 PM by DirrrtyDirk »

Offline VS

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #41 on: September 16, 2008, 04:13:46 PM »
We need some way to get data from vehicle dat files so that it can be analysed... and that goes hand in hand with balancing.

Offline DirrrtyDirk

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #42 on: September 16, 2008, 04:31:56 PM »
I have just tested it - and I think it is not yet ready for inclusion into the pakset.

It doesn't align very well with several trucks, there are some graphical glitches that still need work (some parts look a little rough, on some edges some pixels appear to be missing), also unwanted non-darkening greys need to be removed and rear lights added (last two steps should go fairly quick with Shades.)

So, still some work left to do (too much for me to adjust that now).

Offline VS

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #43 on: September 16, 2008, 06:01:13 PM »
Lights are just the last touch. But it seems that the trailers and trucks have problems in general... erm, correction, everything. It might be nice to get a working, well-aligned vehicle of default length first, which "jumps" only minimally (meaning best achievable case). Then produce a template from that, and then realign everything :P

I don't have plans, I have disasters.

Offline Zeno

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Re: Coal Truck
« Reply #44 on: September 16, 2008, 08:55:01 PM »
I don't have plans, I have disasters.
lol You're a well-informed optimist...  ;D