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Author Topic: Thoughts on ST dec2009  (Read 4379 times)

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Offline colonyan

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Thoughts on ST dec2009
« on: December 03, 2009, 05:42:53 AM »
 Digging ST.
 Earning money more than you can ever spend, that becomes quicky obsolete as a fun element. Money just is a number, you will get bored quickly.
If you got bored for having too much money you will seek into power and control.

 Power and control is exercised by tool.

 1. The tool we have given in the game is track, station, signal laying/construction.
     Engine, consist, route and schdule and etc.
     Player Category which pursuits
     1-a: Service quality
     1-b: Service volume
     1-c: Balance between quality and volume
 There is actually other branch of player type
 2. Grower/Bleeder
     You like taking care of city which in response to your service, who grows.
     Currently cities respond pretty uniformly but anyway they react to your caring.

 You should be either type 1 or 2 or mix of both.
 I think progress for category 1(tool) has been constant.
 I shall keep going later but I think we have possibility to improve on category 2.
 In short, cities act like a slime of one same specie which independent on its survival
 but grows upon feeding(freight) and taking care of passenger/mail departure.

 For grower/bleeder oriented player, it is kind of boring as speeking of city/industry behaviour.
 (or is it only me? probably... maybe? Idon't know)

 I shall continue later...

Offline Spike

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Re: Thoughts on ST dec2009
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2009, 09:10:11 AM »
You could make a list which of these types will enjoy Simutrans, in which manner they will do, and which won't ;)

Then we can offer a online test and tell players how likely they are to enjoy the game, and which aspects of the game they will enjoy most.

Actually I'd be happy if people just would enjoy the game, and not reason so much about the details. Simutrans is a construction and organizational game mostly, and people who like that should also like Simutrans.

Edit: From a very old posting of mine in another place - I had been wondering what kind of activities players like in games, and found a list, that strangely seemed to resemble some basic human activities from the past

- Hunting/gathering
- Farming/herding
- Construction
- Trade/diplomacy
- Social inner-family/clan activities

Simutrans will cater for the construction part mostly, and to some extend to the farming/herding part.

People ask for more trade/diplomacy in Simutrans, more social activity (multiplayer), but seldom for hunting ... so i guess we have the picture already what Simutrans is, and what the adjacent fields are, that are liked by player but are not in Simutrans.

And I, to some extend, refuse the idea that Simutrans must be changed so that it offers something for all of those basic activities. I think it's alright to only serve one.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 09:18:41 AM by Hajo »

Offline colonyan

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Re: Thoughts on ST dec2009
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2009, 04:16:05 PM »
Construction:All infrastructure. Also its degree meausres by its quality and volume it can handle.
Herding- If I'm correct, this is for service quality measured in large proportion of green status time period of stations.

I agree ST better stick with above two element.
I think herding element is very important since construction only seems more as sandbox mode.

Let me rephrase my first post.
I think there is a replayability issue in ST right now.
Putting aside the fact that there is different pak sets, thing differ one map from other is
its size, geographic traits, population placement(city placement) and industry placement.

One. All city's passenger and mail generation is proportionate to its population throughout the game.
        I would say some few group of nearby cities to be really atmost active in pass/mail wise.
        There is area where more economically affluent thus creating more passenger/mail.
Two. Repetitive production chain.
        Same distance/spacing between producing/manufacturing buildings/sites.
        Natural resource site appealing all over the map is too unrealistic/opportunistic.
        Natural resource site should be fixed to few regions in map like there is certain mountain there and lakes are elsewhere.
Three.All over same city growth behaviour. Only its 3 size level affect, but other than that, cities are all clones.
Four.Self sufficient cities.
        Once city buildings are built, they will be there indefinitely generating passenger/mail, eventhough they can be changed
        from one building to other. This contribute especially to the unreplayabilities of the ST.
        Large metropolis requires many service. When gasolin is transported to a city, its not transported just for its growth but
        it is mostly for city's economic survival.
        Think transportation as bloodline. Bloodline transmit nutrients necessary to life to grow but it also transports nutrient
        necessary for its [survival].

I don't have solution to all above right now obviously nor it seems easy to do.
I know not many player care about their client(city/industry) behaviour.
This is what I'm thinking about most of time during my transportation.
But if well done, it will indirectly affect players replayability in longterm.

Another dilemma is that inspite the above points I've mentioned, game just seems to work fine for now.
(well, at least I'm done and bored with current city/industry behaviour)

Offline colonyan

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Re: Thoughts on ST dec2009
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2009, 07:08:45 PM »
Idea comes and goes. I'd like to write down as purpose of milestone and tombstone.

Lets introduce new point of view. Basic material wealth.
Separating growth and wealth level.

Eventually, there will be difference in econmic activity level among the cities and regions as type of industry increases.

Here, lets assume main economic motor is the middle class.
They account for large percentage of population and influence the most the consumption trend.
Thus I will measure the status of city with proportion of middle class within the cities.
Idea is, more there is middle class, society is wealthy and player have done its job.
Thus good proportion of middle class means lots and lots of passenger/mail/freight traffic.
The catch is that population will increase so you have constant new comer wich has to be converted to middle class.
Also, once they are middle class, they require player service to stay as middle class.

What takes to be a middle class?(middle class here includes middle class and above)
How does employment emerges?
By briging out all kind of natural resource and converting them into final products.


Lets imagine a simplest case.
Assuming populace here was originally bee and evolved as humanoid sentient being.
For them, all it takes is honey to become middle class and stay as middle class.
Assuming for each 1000 population it takes 1cargo load of honey each month to stay
as middle class.

And also, lets assume population increases where there is hope for employment.
Additionaly, public player ai will determine total food output=supported population.
Ofcourse, food not being simulated in this case. Food is distributed instantly.
It will be simple as +1% growth per month for this case.

There will be flower farm and honey factory.
One farm supports fully one factory.
One factory produces 2kunits per month.
Farm and factory have each one village of 1k population within its employment range.
Unfortunately, villages outside of range of employment of any farm and factory will lose chance to have middle class at all.
Thus those villages will lose chance to have any population growth as there is no hope for employment.
Those villages will generate minimum amount of passenger and mails.

to be cont.