Author Topic: February Challenge  (Read 11271 times)

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Balsamo

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February Challenge
« on: January 31, 2010, 06:29:34 PM »
I've just finished the Rogaland challenge. I had a lot of fun doing it and I found it nice to see how other people are doing.

I've created my own challenge. With it I've created my own blog to post about my progress and the progress of others. As I mention in my first post I would like to create a new challenge every month or second month.

This challenge is simple. There is a map with ten cities. There is a sea in the center. One of the cities is small and far from the rest, isolated on it's own island. So the goal for the game is to reach the highest population for that city in 15 years. The second goal is to have the highest population overall.

I find it challenging in the sense that the city is small and probably not profitable for most line to reach it. So players have to lose money to make it grow anyway. I can't wait to see the strategies that people will use.... Plane, boat, train or bus...

The address of the blog I've created is http://polskanada.blogspot.com/

The file to use is this one: http://www.4shared.com/file/212358203/b06bc9c4/Seachallenger.html

Have fun!!!

Offline vilvoh

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Re: February Challenge
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2010, 03:09:05 PM »
You forgot to post here that it's for pak128 with simutrans 102.0... ;)

Good luck with the challenge.

Escala Real...a blog about Simutrans in Spanish...

Offline Optimix

Re: February Challenge
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2010, 02:25:30 AM »
Balsamo, my compliments! I think this is a great challenge!!
I like challenges, with a clear task, and without or few restrictions.
I did a first try, and it looks like if we have plenty of money to invest,
but because there are so few passengers, its going fast with the
money. It will not suprise you, that I was bankrupt in about 6 months.
I think the big question here is, how to start. Trains, ships, busses,
or puzzling for an ideal combination of them. I will start my 2d try
soon.

Only 2 questions:
1. Finish at 31december 1954?
2. Allowed to raise land, to enlarge the island with the small town?

Balsamo

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Re: February Challenge
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2010, 02:38:22 AM »
I went bankrupt after my first year. My second try is going very well. I've learned from my mistakes.

There is no trouble with raising land. Just not across the whole sea... It's a good idea to do so.

31st December 1954 or 1st January 1955... As close as possible to midnight between 1954 and 1955...

Offline Optimix

Re: February Challenge
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2010, 11:01:30 PM »
I am playing a quickie in speed 4
May 1948 - total 25.731 and Sunderland 2717
It's hard to let the Sunderland city grow, and I have
many troubles with raising land. My program crashes
then. You have the same?

Offline Dwachs

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Re: February Challenge
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2010, 09:07:17 AM »
I have many troubles with raising land. My program crashes then. You have the same?
Please report this as a bug in the bug-reporting section of the forum! Which version do you use? What action does trigger the bug? Did you test with the stable release candidate, which can be found here:
http://simutrans-germany.com/~nightly/simutrans/index.php
Parsley, sage, rosemary, and maggikraut.

Offline Optimix

Re: February Challenge
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2010, 05:20:37 PM »
Dwachs, I use 102.2 (okt 17 -2009).

Reasons I did not report:
In general, I am a little afraid, that this is my problem, (my computer)
and not Simutrans.
Thatswhy I check these things first. The raising land problem, I discussed
in the Dutch forum, and 2 other people did NOT have that problem.
Exactly the same as the problem losing my cursor, when I am building
a track from A to B. When I click A, and move to B to click there again
for automaticly building the track, point A is "forgotten". This problem
2 other users did not recognize too.
Another reason is, that both problems do not happen always.
Sometimes everything is going well, sometimes its going wrong.

I have seen a new update, and I will download that to see if these
"bugs" are disappeared.

Balsamo

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Re: February Challenge
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2010, 04:56:06 PM »
I don't have trouble with raising the land.

It seems quite good your results after 8 years. After one year I have 8634 for the total population and 751 for Sunderland...

Offline Optimix

Re: February Challenge
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2010, 06:22:56 PM »
I started again and my result for december 1954 is
33127 - 3457



I started with building docks in a circle of the map.
And seeded these docks with passengers with busses.
Later, when cities were growing, trains too.

It is definitly not a nice game I did, so not so serious.
It is something like an experiment. Because not all trips
passengers make, are logic. My income every month is just
enough not getting bankrupt. So my health is only 300.000

I did several attempts starting with trains, but it seems
that rail-bridges are too expensive, to connect cities, so this
always ends in a bankrupt.

Offline AP

Re: February Challenge
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2010, 12:18:16 PM »
I tried both rail and road, but couldn't get passengers to turn a profit. I found myself cursing all those dense forests as well, since it greatly increases construction costs. Suspect a profitable industrial network in the SE corner may be the key, but I've been too busy lately to explore it further.

Offline Optimix

Re: February Challenge
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2010, 02:43:39 AM »
AP, it is a hard one indeed. I tried to explore an industrial network
too, but my experience is, that it does not give you enough money
to transport passengers with trains. The routes for transporting
cars, and steel (that gives the money) are too short.

The only way for me untill now to make this scenario profitable,
is using ringlines with ships and many busses, because rail-bridges
are too expensive.

Balsamo

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Re: February Challenge
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2010, 03:29:45 AM »
I've completed the February challenge. It was harder than I thought. I had to restart twice. Finally I went for a bus strategy with switching to train when it was getting too busy. I did devellop the industry and I was making good money with it.
If I play the map another time, I'll give a try to a boat strategy.

My final results are for 2891 Sunderland and 30179 for all the cities.



I'll post a new challenge in April. I'm not sure yet what it'll be, I have some idea and I'll try to come up with something original. I hope some more people will complete this one :)

mod note: please, do not double-post. Modify the last comment instead.
~vilvoh

« Last Edit: March 16, 2010, 08:04:16 AM by vilvoh »

Offline jeffatsqi

Re: February Challenge
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2010, 02:02:32 PM »
I just completed the challenge with these results:

  • 35,127 total population
  • 2,737 Sunderland  population
  • 2.2 million Net Worth

This is a completely land based solution with only buses and mail trucks

Thanks for putting the challenge together. I enjoyed playing. I am also interested in see the finished game files from the other players. Here is mine:

http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/Seachallenger%20-%20CityCenterMail%20v26%20FINAL.sve

ps. I hav some ideas in how to get Sunderland to grow faster. May try agian if I can find the time.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2010, 05:51:11 PM by jeffatsqi »
Simutrans economics labs at www.osnv.org

Offline Optimix

Re: February Challenge
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2010, 03:10:05 AM »
Hello jeffatski, nice you participated in this challenge! I would like
to watch your game, but I think there is something wrong with the
link? I cannot find it, and if I hit your link I reach the general upload-
download site. And of course I would love it, to hear how to get
Sunderland growing faster ;-)

Offline jeffatsqi

Re: February Challenge
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2010, 05:54:32 PM »
@Optimix

I think I fixed the link above so that it starts the download. Try and let me know if you have any problems.

Also, I am trying my idea, but as you know the game takes so time to play.
Simutrans economics labs at www.osnv.org

Offline jeffatsqi

Re: February Challenge
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2010, 02:09:25 PM »
I just completed a second game of the challenge with these results:

    * 40,835 total population
    * 3,487 Sunderland  population
    * 2.9 million Net Worth

This is a completely land based solution with only buses and mail trucks

http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/Seachallenger%20-%20Sunderland%20v31%20FINAL.sve

Again, thanks for putting this challenge together. It took a while to find the "trick" that solved making the system profitable in the early years.
Simutrans economics labs at www.osnv.org

Offline Optimix

Re: February Challenge
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2010, 02:04:44 AM »
@Optimix

I think I fixed the link above so that it starts the download. Try and let me know if you have any problems.

Also, I am trying my idea, but as you know the game takes so time to play.

Hello jeffatsqi, your links is working fine now, and I have downloaded
and watched it. The second link I will watch later.
My compliments for your results. It seems to me, that you are
working very properly and well-organised. Nice straight ways and
all built with patience. Looks great, and fun to watch it.
But I also have a little remark. There are some passangers waiting
in Sunderland and they want to travel to Southampton. Did you ever
count the months that it will take, before these passengers will
reach their destination? Hehe :-) It is an enormous trip, and they
will be very tired when they finally are in Southampton.

But, important (!) I dont blame you for that, because I am doing
sometimes the same. Unlogical travels gives a lot of money. My last
try for this challenge ( I played it almost 50 times) I reached a
population of over 50000. Untill now I did not want to upload it,
because I have unlogical routes (especially ships) too.

Here is the link:

 http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/Seachallenger%2050309%204338.sve

Greetings!

Balsamo

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Re: February Challenge
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2010, 03:49:49 AM »
I'll post my first save soon. You've got good results. I'll check both save sadly for now they make simutrans crash, so I have to make it work first...

I trying a new strategy now, did anyone try it with planes? So far it's working...

Offline jeffatsqi

Re: February Challenge
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2010, 07:32:34 PM »
@Optimix

Very nice game. I enjoyed reviewing your solution, and in the process learned a couple of tricks.

Here are a couple of comments on my game:

1. I focused on an "all land" solution because a number of people trying the challenge said they could not get a land approach to work. Obviously from my results it is a viable solution.

2. I finished the game without a loan. This was not a term of the challenge but I though it was a good goal. If a loan the end is OK then one can be much more aggressive early on.

3. I don't completely agree with your point on trip times via land. With the bus speed twice the boat speed, and with almost no wait for a bus - at any point in the game - to get started on the trip verses a boat waiting to fully load, I think land is very viable.

The way to really determine if land or sea is better is to play the challenge with the Experimental version (penalizes long wait times) and see which solution wins.

In summary, thanks for sharing a really nice solution. It has inspired my to try a sea strategy for the challenge. If I get anything interesting I will post.
Simutrans economics labs at www.osnv.org

Offline Optimix

Re: February Challenge
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2010, 02:42:40 AM »
Hey there jeffatsqi,
Thanks for your nice words about my game.
As promised I've seen now your second attempt, the "final" one.
It looks all very nice, and it is running great. My compliments for
this game, especially that you fixed to finish without loan!!

About the enormous trip the passengers have to make, from Sunderland
to Salisbury (they get a complete free sight-seeing of this complete
land :-) ), I tried to follow a group of passengers, during this trip.
It is not simple to do that; during my following I lost them, and did not
know anymore in what bus they were travelling. I guess they are
travelling for about 4 months.....hehe :-)

But your argument is strong, that a ship is driving slow (your evil busses
are driving fast, on fast roads!) and of course that a ship has mostly to wait
for a percentage of passengers, is of course unrealistic too.

The best way to decide in these situations is, compare it with real life.
I dont think there is any country in the world, where for people it is
impossible to work (in this case Sunderland) and live in Salisbury.
Then they use more time for travelling than for working. Only solution
is then to sleep in the bus :-) So in real life situations, there will be a bridge,
a boat, or planes. If these possibilities are not there, nobody will make
such travels.

Only situation I can imagine for unrealistic travels is in a land like
Switzerland, with high mountains. Constructing a tunnel cost too
much money and then passengers have to travel via a longer distance.
But writing this all, I have to confess that my routes are not so
realistic too. So I dont blame you at all; your game looks great!

@Balsamo
Hey, I read above you are trying with planes. I would like to know
how you do that. I did some tries with planes too, but every plane
(post or passengers) cost only money, instead of giving you money.
Even if they are full. The only reason is, I think, that they can transport
too few passengers (about 60 maximum?)
Tell me more!! :-)

Greetings!

Balsamo

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Re: February Challenge
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2010, 09:30:07 PM »
My first try with the plane was to build three airports in Salisbury, Lancaster and Sunderland. It was too expensive, so I had to remove the one in Salisbury. I was missing money to really consider it a good try, so I started over again. On my second try, I built an airport in Lancaster and one in Sunderland. So far it's going well. It's sure that I would never use airport if the goal was to make money. The airplane are expensive and they lose money every year, but they are quick and I don't need many of them to meet the demand. Toward the end there is even a new plane that is profitable. It can transport about 100 passengers. Since the goal is to have Sunderland growing, it's a strategy that make sense. I build very simple airports in the city centers, this way the upkeep isn't too high...

Otherwise I'm opting for buses at the beginning, switching to train when there is enough traffic. I hope to post my final save soon.

Sadly I haven't managed yet to open your save file :(