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Offline TheMacpau

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demo.sve
« on: February 04, 2010, 10:13:55 AM »
Do you guys think we need a new demo/startup save to showcase all the funky new additions made to the pak? In particular it's missing boats.

Offline The Hood

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2010, 10:33:35 AM »
If you (or anyone else) want to submit one for use in future releases, go ahead.  I'll pick the one I like most :)

Rules:
- no larger than the current map
- timeline on (the year is your choice)
- show as many features as possible in an elegant way

Offline TheMacpau

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2010, 11:02:58 AM »
When you say timeline on, do you mean all from one timeperiod or can I play to that point and therefore have legacy trains and stuff?

Offline The Hood

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2010, 11:10:58 AM »
Obsolete vehicles are OK, but I'd rather it was historical - e.g. If you were doing 2010 you could still have pacers and IC125s as they are still operational, but no steam engines.  Hope that makes sense.

Note you can build obsolete vehicles with the timeline on (there's a button in the depot window), same goes for buildings in public player mode.

Offline TheMacpau

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2010, 11:24:57 AM »
Ok I see obsolete is ok but nothing too silly, like puffing billy's in the 1990's :-D

Offline AP

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2010, 05:52:41 PM »
Unless on small heritage lines of course ... Titfield Thunderbolt anyone?  :D




EDIT:
Does the demo run in freeplay mode? I mean, can we overspend or will it cause problems?
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 07:44:33 PM by AP »

Offline The Hood

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2010, 08:11:33 PM »
@AP: No idea - overspending is fine though (in fact almost inevitable given small map and wanting to show off nice game objects!). 

Offline ӔO

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2010, 09:16:39 PM »
railway museum?

actually, there are some SL still in use. BR standard class 8P and peppercorn A1 (looks exactly like LNER A1) to be specific

Offline The Hood

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2010, 09:38:47 PM »
All steam in the UK is heritage operation of one sort or another, so what I meant was sticking with what is in regular commercial use for a given era.

Offline AP

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2010, 01:57:39 AM »
1989 is the key date - last use of steam by BR on commercial non-heritage services.

 
« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 07:49:03 AM by vilvoh »

Offline The Hood

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2010, 08:34:59 AM »
Given we don't have narrow gauge, I think 1966 is the last date for any of the steam locos in the pak...

Offline ӔO

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2010, 09:22:39 AM »
how about set it for 1965?
steam and diesel on the main track and a DC-third rail or AC catenary EMU on a branch line.

if you make it a coast line, you could have a ship freight line setup.

Offline The Hood

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2010, 09:26:59 AM »
I'm open to a demo.sve for any era, as long as the vehicles used in the sve are representative of that era.  The current one is a good example of what I'm after.  If someone submits a good 1965 map then good, but equally it could be 1865...  If I get loads of good maps I might use a different one for each release.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2010, 10:40:51 AM »
Given we don't have narrow gauge, I think 1966 is the last date for any of the steam locos in the pak...

August 1968 was the last mainline standard gauge steam operation on BR wasn't it (aside from heritage services)?

Offline The Hood

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2010, 10:47:49 AM »
August 1968 was the last mainline standard gauge steam operation on BR wasn't it (aside from heritage services)?

That's what I meant  :P

Offline AP

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2010, 10:03:57 AM »
I think I had my awkward hat on yesterday...

Offline The Hood

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2010, 10:46:59 AM »
So, is anyone up for actually making a new demo.sve, or is this just the thread where we all sit around and chat about it? ;D

Offline AP

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2010, 11:20:40 AM »
I've been working on one ... it's a bit like playing in a sandbox, tbh, making one of these, but fun nonetheless.
{EDIT - updated link 2 posts down}
http://files.simutrans.us/files/get/G6AzIU47o2/demoap.sve

Not quite finished, and I made the map narrower but longer (same area though). Need to finish linking industries...
« Last Edit: February 06, 2010, 05:45:18 PM by AP »

Offline The Hood

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2010, 01:45:31 PM »
I can't load this map as it is requesting a crossing between waytypes 2 and 3 - is this because you have used pak128 water/road or water/rail crossings? 

Offline AP

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2010, 05:38:28 PM »
Oh yeah, I forgot I'd added them into my pak (well remembered!). There's only one of them on the map... I'll fix it now...

Edit: Try this one
http://files.simutrans.us/files/get/CNDFVnJKZw/demoap2.sve for Simutrans standard 102.2.1 and Pak-GB standard 1.06.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2010, 05:45:26 PM by AP »

Offline TheMacpau

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2010, 02:42:54 PM »
I'm working on one too, I'm trying to think of the best way to showcase each of the features. I'm open to suggestions :-)

Offline AP

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2010, 02:54:33 PM »
I don't think there are any aircraft yet, so although I built a couple of RAF-style airfields i couldn't make anything fly between them. I also couldn't come up with a plausible way of incorporating ships without taking up a large amount of map-space with clear blue ocean... otherwise they have nowhere to sail to (or it looks like you should have just built a bridge!).

I thought the "tunnel" solution was neat for rail, though... if you make the terrain plausible, you can have a mainline 'emerge' and cross a very short part of the map, then go into another tunnel, and just shuttle a train back and forth. Looks quite plausble.

Offline TheMacpau

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2010, 03:01:20 PM »
I put a ridge line across the map to justify a tunnel and a estuary to justify the bridges. Stuck a mountain to one end to show off the sexy new snow images, but had to be selective about the city buildings I allowed...

I'm considering the offshore platform as an excuse for shipping.

Hadn't considered putting in planes until they were completed, besides flying planes in such a short distance is really a stretch.

I'll probably make a mess of the historicity of the rolling stock so will ask for you guys to confirm suitability of my choices once I get a save posted.

Offline The Hood

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2010, 10:38:56 PM »
AP,

Really like your save, you certainly set a high standard for any other contenders...

I'd suggest a couple of changes though (minor historical nitpicks really):
- GWR 2800s are freight locos, so I'd replace them on the passenger service with Kings or Stars
- LMS 8Fs would probably be more suited to the heavy freight runs than Black 5s which are more mixed traffic locos
- Not 100% sure about whether the SR passenger service is ideal for schools class or not, maybe better with Merchant Navy or West Country?  Or even some old King Arthurs?  AFAIK Schools class were for lighter (shorter) expresses.
- Metropolitan railway was 3rd/4th rail electrified rather than overhead.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2010, 11:20:28 PM »
There are some issues with this working with Simutrans-Experimental, too. Firstly (and this is an issue that affects the Standard version, albeit only cosmetically), the overhead electrification type used is incorrect: for trams, it should be the tram-specific catenary; for mainline rail, it should be the DC overhead, rather than the AC overhead catenary, which was only introduced in the late 1950s. Secondly, there are some places in which the trains are too heavy for bridges (such as on the southerly branch line using a wooden bridge). Thirdly, the tramway used by main line trains in the harbour area cannot accommodate main line trains in Experimental: there is a special heavyweight tramway for the purpose.

One point that is not specific to Experimental: the third rail suburban services seem to use 4-Cors, which were actually inter-urban express units. Using two sets of 2-Bil units might be more accurate.

As to trains to use on the overhead electrified section, there are currently no overhead DC electrified units. I have some unfinished graphics for some units introduced in the 1930s that lasted until the 1960s, however, that would fit the era perfectly; they are all rendered and just need to be copied and pasted onto the correct background colour in the correct places and have .dat files made up for them.

Offline AP

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2010, 10:14:31 AM »
Morning all.

@hood:
Glad you like it!

GWR Loco, LMS Loco, easily changed. I think the Schools class is okay though; their first route was London-Dover (not a light route), they were powerful enough, the main design feature was, I think, that in spite of that they were short enough for existing turntables. Besides, they're rather good looking engines!

@James:
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the third rail suburban services seem to use 4-Cors, which were actually inter-urban express units. Using two sets of 2-Bil units might be more accurate.
Will do.
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there is a special heavyweight tramway for the purpose (mainline trains)
Is it available in simutrans-standard to draw, I don't recall seeing it (?).

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the overhead electrification type used is incorrect
I know, but hadn't realised it would cause issues with Experimental though. I just like my catenery poles looking slender, so always use the "nicest" one. Can adjust that, it's just cosmetic.
Quote
Secondly, there are some places in which the trains are too heavy for bridges
This suprised me - how does one work out the weight limit for bridges then? I knew of the speed limits but didn't know about weight limits. Was thinking of Hayling Island when I ran Terriers on one of the branch lines over the timber bridges (assume that works), I know the other line has an M7 on it (which were heavier), and then of course there's my tall trestle in the mountains...

Quote
As to trains to use on the overhead electrified section, there are currently no overhead DC electrified units. I have some unfinished graphics for some units introduced in the 1930s that lasted until the 1960s, however, that would fit the era perfectly...
That would suit better - wanted to have a legitimate overhead-electric line on the map - was thinking initially of the LBSCR electrics when I put that in (though that was phased out in the 30s I think).

Offline The Hood

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2010, 12:43:03 PM »
James, simutrans experimental issues could really complicate this.  Let's keep the demo.sve to what can be done in the standard version, and if you want to make any changes to show off additional features of experimental, then you can make the necessary changes.

Back to AP's save though - I think either the met stock stays and electrification goes to 3rd rail (the met was 3rd rail electric), or if James completes his DC overhead stock then use that with DC overhead wires.  Tram electrification should be used on street in the standard version too, as that was what I drew it for and the AC overhead wires look a little out of place on streets.

Offline ӔO

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2010, 05:12:08 AM »
here's my attempt.

1957, early BR era, so I have a mix of 7 and 8 class SLs from LNER, LMS and BR going, with electric and diesel units being introduced here and there. The 3rd rail and DC catenary way type separation worked fine in experimental.

I setup the mainline as a partial quad track (can't fit it all) and some of the branch lines as single tracks with passing loops.

I would ignore the trucks being used, since that's the only truck in that time period that works in experimental without going at a crawl.

http://files.simutrans.us/files/get/CV7mSzWM40/demoaeo.sve

Offline The Hood

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2010, 09:01:10 AM »
Any more contributions/updates?  I'm hoping to release the next version in the next week or so, and will be including one of these new demo.sves...

@jamespetts,
I'm assuming no more progress on your new rail vehicles?  If you have managed to finish some of them and they're ready for release, please let me have them so I can include them in 1.07.

Offline AP

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2010, 06:59:48 PM »
Aah, I was waiting for possible new dc overhead electric before doing the changes... do you want me to revert the electrification to 3rd rail, in which case I can do the rest now (over the weekend).

Offline jamespetts

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2010, 09:43:47 PM »
Am extremely busy with work this week, I'm afraid...

Offline The Hood

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2010, 09:45:10 PM »
Just stick with what is currently available in SVN.  New stuff can feature in future demo.sves

Offline AP

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2010, 11:01:21 PM »
I've made the requested changes, and fixed a couple of typos I'd spotted in station names (all from Hardy novels, btw!).

Revised file at:
http://files.simutrans.us/files/get/nTnGNuFgNq/demoapv3.sve

Offline Dwachs

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2010, 07:24:41 PM »
Just some remarks to the demo.sve in the 1.07 release:

-- please remove the hangar, since clicking on it crashes simutrans (when not airplanes are available)
-- in Marygreen there are two adjacent road tiles that are not connected
-- typo: Casterbridge Exchagne station
-- somehow the pillars of the wooden trestle bridge look odd, saving/loading with the stable RC version fixed it for me

Otherwise: I really like the demo.sve.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2010, 07:36:14 PM by Dwachs »

Offline AP

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Re: demo.sve
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2010, 10:17:02 PM »
Thanks!

I've made those amendments. Revised file: v4.

Quote
please remove the hangar, since clicking on it crashes simutrans (when not airplanes are available)
I couldn't replicate this crash, thought I have removed it nonetheless.