Topic: pak128.USA

[Reddog785]

i view that´s working on the pak128.usa be beging.
but i have a little problem,a link wont not work:
http://files.simutrans.us/files/get/ZUTAXA8Rsr/roads-v1.0.zip

it´s possibel too get this zipfile please?
i want be look on the new pakfiles

greenling

May this help? http://translate.google.co.uk/

I know you aren't British but as I don't know your nationality I can't give you a link to Google Translae in your region.

[Václav]

Files.simutrans.us does not exist. Its life had been ended before few months.

[railfan727]

Where are the US files located now?

[Václav]

I don't know. I think that Isaac deleted it less any substitution. All I can tell you is - try announcements board.

[railfan727]

So what is the status of pak128.USA?  Is it still in development and not yet released, or released and no longer being distributed?

[Václav]

I beg your pardon.

I really don't know because I don't care about it* - I think it is under development but its repository is somewhere else - because files.simutrans.us was not used only by pak128.USA - and not established only for pak128.USA.

* - because I help to develop pak128.CS - and sometimes also else paks with size 128 - but not more than by some wrong written good tips (advices?).

[wlindley]

There is, so far, no repository because there is not yet a definite "base set" to start from.  I would like to organize this, but every pak seems to have its own way of organizing directories, its own set of tools, the need for tools like Tilecutter that do not run on Linux (when tile-cutting should really be built into makeobj), the lack of an un-pak tool to recover source images from old paks that we have permission to use but no way of extracting the images or data, and so on.

Nor can I find any good information on how to write a script to automatically balance a pak, and that seems hopeless without one.

Anyone?

[jamespetts]

Can Tilecutter not run under Wine?

[Spike]

When I was using Linux I cut the tiles manually ...

But TileCutter sure is more convenient.

[prissi]

There are unpack tools, just ask VS.

About balancing: There is absolutely no way of balancing a pak set without playing it. YOu can make some rules, but in the end it needs playtesting and playtesting.

[vilvoh]

Can Tilecutter not run under Wine?

It works but sometimes with small unexpected results. Shades works better.

[rfg123]

The file you guys are after contains the beta versions of the roads I painted, not a full pakset or anything close to one.. I had trouble getting the pavement markings to line up and moved on to another project.

However, if you want to experiment with them they are attached to this post in a pair of zip files (no sources).

[rfg123]

The first "complete" pak128.USA locomotive just rolled off the assembly line: the ALCO FA-1 and FB-1.

It is available from its real life build dates 1946-1959 and has stats comparable to the prototype. Cost, gear, and maintenance are all rough figures, since there is nothing yet to extrapolate costs for this pakset. This vehicle was originally painted by Raven, I simply re-aligned it, removed special colors, added headlights to the A unit, and wrote a new parameters file.

Code: [Select]

obj=vehicle
name=ALCO FA
copyright=Raven & RFG
waytype=track
engine_type=diesel
freight=None
payload=0
speed=105
power=1160
gear=83
weight=115
cost=7440000
runningcost=137
intro_year=1946
intro_month=1
retire_year=1959
retire_month=5
constraint[prev][0]=ALCO FB
constraint[prev][1]=none
smoke=Diesel_black
sound=train-horn-diesel-0.wav
emptyimage[w]=ALCO FA.0.0
emptyimage[nw]=ALCO FA.0.1
emptyimage[n]=ALCO FA.0.2
emptyimage[ne]=ALCO FA.0.3
emptyimage[e]=ALCO FA.0.4
emptyimage[se]=ALCO FA.0.5
emptyimage[s]=ALCO FA.0.6
emptyimage[sw]=ALCO FA.0.7

Code: [Select]

obj=vehicle
name=ALCO FB
copyright=Raven & RFG
waytype=track
engine_type=diesel
freight=None
payload=0
speed=105
power=1160
gear=83
weight=121
cost=7420000
runningcost=131
intro_year=1946
intro_month=1
retire_year=1959
retire_month=5
constraint[prev][0]=ALCO FA
constraint[prev][1]=ALCO FB
smoke=Diesel_black
sound=train-horn-diesel-0.wav
emptyimage[w]=ALCO FB.0.0
emptyimage[nw]=ALCO FB.0.1
emptyimage[n]=ALCO FB.0.2
emptyimage[ne]=ALCO FB.0.3
emptyimage[e]=ALCO FB.0.4
emptyimage[se]=ALCO FB.0.5
emptyimage[s]=ALCO FB.0.6
emptyimage[sw]=ALCO FB.0.7

[prissi]

Could you sharpen this otherwise fine image a little? It looks very blurred to me.

[rfg123]

Could you sharpen this otherwise fine image a little? It looks very blurred to me.

I believe what you are seeing is just the small details, it looks great in-game I promise.

In any case, I put together another unit: an ALCO RS-1. This image is already in standard pak128, but as a completely different unit. Available 1941-1960, realistic stats, estimated price, maintenance, and gear.  It was also darkened slightly and I correctly positioned the headlights.. Oh, and I flipped it around so it is no longer running backwards.

Code: [Select]

obj=vehicle
name=ALCO RS-1
copyright=Raven & RFG
waytype=track
engine_type=diesel
freight=None
payload=0
speed=50
power=746
gear=101
weight=112
cost=1940000
runningcost=67
intro_year=1941
intro_month=3
retire_year=1960
retire_month=3
smoke=Diesel_black
sound=train-horn-diesel-0.wav
emptyimage[w]=ALCO RS-1.0.0
emptyimage[nw]=ALCO RS-1.0.1
emptyimage[n]=ALCO RS-1.0.2
emptyimage[ne]=ALCO RS-1.0.3
emptyimage[e]=ALCO RS-1.0.4
emptyimage[se]=ALCO RS-1.0.5
emptyimage[s]=ALCO RS-1.0.6
emptyimage[sw]=ALCO RS-1.0.7
Is anyone else actively working on this pakset?

[greenling]

The Alcos looking in the Pngfilebe good out!

greenling

[ostlandr]

I don't know if this will help, but:

The other day I was trying to "clean up" the PakSets on our old computer.  I added a folder called "pak_alt", copied all of Pak64 ("Pak") into it, and then "weeded" out my Pak 64 folder (too many buses!!!!) The next time I started the program, I had a choice of either "pak" or "pak_alt".   

So, apparently Simutrans doesn't care what's in a folder so long as the word "pak" is in the title.  That gave me the idea to create my own "pak_us" set by just dumping the appropriate pak files into the folder. 

I decided to check if anyone else on Simutrans is working on/interested in a pak.us, and wound up here!   

Balance is a problem, so I plan to install Makeobj and edit some dat files.  I am working on a quick-and-dirty spreadsheet tool to evaluate the cost per passenger/mile or ton/mile for road vehicles and trains.  That will let the set balance internally at least.  I am going to base running costs on kw, with decreases coming with advanced technology.  For example, when diesel engines for heavy trucks come out in the 1940s-50s, that will decrease the running cost per km.  Also, when "Aerodyne" type semi tractors come out in the '80s-'90s, that will reduce the running cost per km for a given kw rating.

"Gearing" will be fun to play around with too.  This should accurately replicate the different size drivers on steam locomotives, different gearing on diesels, and different final drive ratios in road vehicles.  Current plan is to use 100 kmh as a base for both road vehicles and trains.  A vehicle should be able to reach this speed (just) on level road/track with its full load (road vehicles) or tonnage rating (trains.)  Of course road/rail conditions limit this.  Consistent with US practice, I intend to have multiple versions of the same vehicles with different gearing.  For example, a standard 2-8-0 Consolidation steam locomotive (1-4-0 in European notation) will have a max speed of 100 kmh, a gearing of 1:1 (none) and enough power to pull a train of X tons to max speed (eventually) on level track.  Another version will have a max speed of 50 kmh and a gearing of 2.00:1, for hauling heavy trains on steep grades and cheaper track.  Or you could have several "Ten Wheelers" (US 4-6-0, EU 1-3-0) for general purpose (100 kmh, 1:1), freight (80 kmh, 1.25:1) or passenger (120 kmh, 0.8:1)
{Note:  I have to do the math yet to figure the gear ratios accurately- these are guesses.}
The same will go for road vehicles.  Since US manufacturers tended to build a "chassis-cab" which was fitted with different bodies for passengers, mail, freight, etc., the gearing for say an early 150kw truck can be changed to allow it to haul a decent amount of bulk goods (slowly) boxed goods more rapidly, and smaller (in weight) loads of passengers and mail at "highway" speeds (no need for 130 km speeds until the era allows the proper roads.)  Rather than include every vehicle, I would rather have one generic chassis/cab per decade or whatever, with different versions for each cargo.  (Not that I'd say no to complete sets of Mack, Ford, International, White, Kenworth, etc. vehicles.   
OK enough for now.  Will check back later with any progress I have made.  Will do this for my own use, and will obtain necessary permissions before posting anything online.  Would love to use the JNR steam locomotives as a base for a generic US set, since they look more US like than the BR sets.       

[rfg123]

Thank you for your insight ostlander, in regard to your mention of steam gearing, I had considered the same thing, and finished the 4-4-0 to experiment with.. It was used for several decades in different gear configurations, easily the most popular steam locomotive of the 19th century.

This pakset is for the 128 size, but I certainly would not object to a 64 version..
I present the first steam locomotive for Pak128.USA, the 4-4-0. Commonly referred to as the "American" or "Eight Wheeler" this locomotive was built by the thousands for US railroads from the first Baldwin creations in 1845 through 1900. Even after the turn of the century, the 4-4-0 served branchlines and logging railroads right up to WWI.

As usual the stats are simply generic and unadjusted. I was not 100% satisfied with the way this one turned out, but it is experimental after all. The good news is with this single unit, a large variety of 4-4-0 models can be represented. Some were geared for faster passenger trains, others for slow freight drags. Effectively this gives a solid, general purpose locomotive for most of the 19th century, with later locomotives being more specifically purposed. Later, the early versions such as this can be recycled for the 1900-1918 period for light density branch lines.

Code: [Select]

obj=vehicle
name=4-4-0 Eight Wheeler
copyright=Raven & RFG
waytype=track
engine_type=steam
freight=None
payload=0
speed=25
power=363
gear=109
weight=115
cost=7440000
runningcost=137
intro_year=1845
intro_month=3
retire_year=1900
retire_month=11
constraint[prev][0]=4-4-0 Eight Wheeler (Tender)
constraint[prev][1]=none
constraint[next][0]=4-4-0 Eight Wheeler (Tender)
smoke=Steam2
sound=train-horn-steam-1.wav
emptyimage[w]=4-4-0 Eight Wheeler.0.0
emptyimage[nw]=4-4-0 Eight Wheeler.0.1
emptyimage[n]=4-4-0 Eight Wheeler.0.2
emptyimage[ne]=4-4-0 Eight Wheeler.0.3
emptyimage[e]=4-4-0 Eight Wheeler.0.4
emptyimage[se]=4-4-0 Eight Wheeler.0.5
emptyimage[s]=4-4-0 Eight Wheeler.0.6
emptyimage[sw]=4-4-0 Eight Wheeler.0.7
And the tender..

Code: [Select]

obj=vehicle
name=4-4-0 Eight Wheeler (Tender)
copyright=Raven & RFG
waytype=track
engine_type=steam
freight=None
payload=0
speed=25
power=0
weight=115
cost=7440000
runningcost=137
intro_year=1845
intro_month=3
retire_year=1900
retire_month=11
length=4
constraint[prev][0]=4-4-0 Eight Wheeler
smoke=-1
sound=-1
emptyimage[w]=4-4-0 Eight Wheeler (Tender).0.0
emptyimage[nw]=4-4-0 Eight Wheeler (Tender).0.1
emptyimage[n]=4-4-0 Eight Wheeler (Tender).0.2
emptyimage[ne]=4-4-0 Eight Wheeler (Tender).0.3
emptyimage[e]=4-4-0 Eight Wheeler (Tender).0.4
emptyimage[se]=4-4-0 Eight Wheeler (Tender).0.5
emptyimage[s]=4-4-0 Eight Wheeler (Tender).0.6
emptyimage[sw]=4-4-0 Eight Wheeler (Tender).0.7
Please report any alignment discrepancies so they can be fixed.

[Václav]

Rfg123: May be I am wrong and there is some special reason for it but I would like to know it:

ALCO RS-1 costs only 19 400 CU per vehicle but other currently being locomotives (ALCO FA with ALCO FB and 4-4-0 Eight wheeler) cost 74 400 CU per vehicle.

It is very strange to me. I waited that locomotives would cost more and more as their intro year goes on - so the cheapest would be 4-4-0 Eight wheeler (with intro year 1845) and the most expensive would be ALCO FA with ALCO FB (with intro year 1946).

[moblet]

Nor can I find any good information on how to write a script to automatically balance a pak, and that seems hopeless without one.

I just discovered Simutrans, have a background in operations research and have been considering the balancing question with pakBritain, see spreadsheet attached to first post. Of course the pakset shouldn't matter, if a balancing process can work for one it can work for any pakset. I believe the only "true" way to balance a pakset is to balance lifetime revenue with lifetime costs for each item, but this requires that everything has an "economic life cycle", i.e. it becomes more expensive to operate as it gets older, and it eventually becomes more economic to replace it than to keep maintaining it. This creates a trade-off between capital and operating costs that makes a comparison between purchasing options, e.g. different vehicles or modes, meaningful. It would be fairly simple to write a script to balance the ratio of lifetime revenue vs cost between units. But there a slightly big problem in that Simutrans cannot increase operating costs with age, so it is not possible to implement such a method. It might be possible to implement a proxy for this for vehicles at least, by assuming an average age at which the player will dispose of each unit.

[Donruggio]

Regarding MUTCD 1971: It is worth remembering that very few of the roads had converted to yellow center stripes in 1971.  FHW, who issued the MUTCD gave states 2 years to adopt the guide and then a period of time to convert - usually 2 years for markings (most paint lasted between 1 and 5 years) and a couple of years for new signage.

1973 was the year of mass repainting.  So for any sim road, i'd use white and yellow up to and including that year, bar California, who completed transition that year.

[TrainMith]

rfg123:   Looks very good.  Thank you for working on this.  I can't wait for pak128.USA to be available!   

[greenling]

TrainMith You must be wait Pak128.Usa do only be Exits on paper.
A Complette Playable Pakset do it not gives.

[Packer]

I dunno if I'm early or late to this party. A while back on the other forum, I resized Raven's pak 96 american sprites for pak 64.

http://archive.forum.simutrans.com/topic/02617.0/index.html

I suppose they could be resized by a factor of 1.5 to get them to pak 128. (or leave them with shorter vehicle lenghts to simulate longer trains)

[greenling]

Good Day Packer
Nice to view you.
It Great that´s you be back in the Forum.

[Packer]

It's good to be back greenling.

In the timeaway from this forum, I was on the transport tycoon forums. I learned how to paint a bit better; and have access to the entire sprite set from the TTD/OTTD NARS2 set. One of the creators of the set PM'd the sprites to me to use as bases for making different vehicles for the pak. I don't know if the TTD graphics would work in Simutrans, and I'd have to get permission (I might have it, but I'd have to look to be sure)

In the link there is a few downloads of pak64 american trains. Granted they are a bit unbalanced, but there may be enough to start a pak64.USA.

So between the NARS Sprites and the modified Raven sprites, a pak64.US could be very well on it's way. Just need the sprites aligned (for the NARS ones), stats tweaked, and recoded.

[prissi]

For OpenTTD desert scenario some magnificient new screenshots have been psoted:
http://goldrush.badbrett.se/#0.10

[MilwaukeeXpress]

what is the current status of pak128.usa?

I believe that adding a USA pak set to simutrans would really help re-introduce simutrans to north America.
even if we don't get to putting pak128.usa together, making more north American addons should definitely help increasing the number of north American players. (which could potentially help getting pak128.USA complete)

I believe that the most widely used passenger rail cars in north America include the super liner, the amfleet, and the Bombardier Bi-level coach.
I have been working on making a Bi-level coach addon. it needs a little more work and adjustments, but it should be done pretty soon. I am more than happy to let people repaint my addons as long as I am given credit:
http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=11184.0

[greenling]

Hello MilwaukeeXpress
the projekt pak128.usa sleeps at moment.
To wake up those projekt need you first some more people the live in the usa.
Can you try to make you friends on this game to alive.

[sdog]

greenling, are you suggesting to relocate simutrans pakset-developers to re-locate to the US? :-) (just joking)

[Fifty]

MilwaukeeXpress,

Pak 128 USA has largely been abandoned, mostly due to a lack of material, in favor of pak 64 USA (click for child board). There is a good deal of available material, particularly from Open TTD in the 64 size. While the project may not appear very active, both Packer and I are working on it behind the scenes. There is already a complete US rail timeline with over 400 vehicles, and many buildings from open TTD and pak 64.

If you're interested in working on the 64 pakset, contact Packer, he's the de-facto head of 64.USA and he can tell you more about the graphic style and needs. Many objects can be resized and touched up from pak 128 versions with permission. From what I know, there is a lack of road vehicles and ships right now.

Any help would be appreciated!

[wlindley]

Pak 128 USA has largely been abandoned, mostly due to a lack of material, in favor of pak 64 USA (click for child board).

With pak64.USA proceeding, perhaps we could direct the 128 efforts into a pak128.USA-experimental ... the Sounder equipment is lovely, MilwaukeeXpress!

[MilwaukeeXpress]

first, thank you for all of your replies.

To wake up those projekt need you first some more people the live in the usa.
Can you try to make you friends on this game to alive.

haha I will do my best.

If you're interested in working on the 64 pakset, contact Packer, he's the de-facto head of 64.USA and he can tell you more about the graphic style and needs. Many objects can be resized and touched up from pak 128 versions with permission. From what I know, there is a lack of road vehicles and ships right now.

thank you for your suggestions, I looked into pak64.usa, and I tried drawing in 64, but I realized that I am not very good at drawing at such small scale...
I think I will continue working on making more North American addons to encourage more people in the US and Canada to start playing simutrans.

With pak64.USA proceeding, perhaps we could direct the 128 efforts into a pak128.USA-experimental ... the Sounder equipment is lovely, MilwaukeeXpress!

I agree, pak.128 appeals to a wider range of players than pak64. and I think pak128.USA should be a priority. and thank you for you complements

here is my latest work: Sound transit (operator of Sounder commuter rail) Express bus, New flyer C40LF.
I know it's still far from complete, but any constructive feed back is appreciated.

[greenling]

MilwaukeeXpress
Raven once had an addon of railway vehicles from the United States.
Also sometimes gave it a addon which for the Dutch railways.
There was also an addon for European roads.
But this addon's are lost then the PNG and dat's.
And the recovery is still in work.

[MilwaukeeXpress]

I'm not sure why you would consider it to be lost... I can find it all here
https://github.com/simutrans/pak128/tree/master/material/raven_railways/vehicles.AMTRAK