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Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #280 on: November 26, 2016, 01:22:32 AM »
It is excellent to see some progress on this. I have now set myself up to compile Standard so that I can produce some patches to progress this project further.

Based on discussions so far, may I therefore suggest the following revised version of my original list? Dwachs' idea of having grund_t become type_t and boden_t become ground_t will not work, as there is already a tile_t (a struct defined in simhalt.h).

  • get_zeit_ms (get_ticks)
  • vorgaenger (leading)
  • nachfolger (trailing)
  • convoi (consist)
  • convoihandle (consist_handle)
  • fussgaenger_besch_t (pedestrian_base_type_t)
  • besch (base_type)
  • grund (ground)
  • bild (image - this has already been translated in some places, but remains in others)
  • eintrag (entry)
  • fahrplan (schedule - only the filenames need renaming, I think)
  • gebaeude (building)
  • stadt (city)
  • fabrik (industry)
  • fundament (foundation)
  • planquadrat (grid_square)
  • platzsucher (location_finder)
  • simfab (simindustry)
  • warenzeil (cargo_destination)
  • wasser (water)
  • zeiger (pointer)
  • raucher (smoke_producer)
  • vehikel (vehicle)
  • bauer (builder)
  • boden (soil)
  • linien (line)
  • eintrag (entry)
  • schiene (railway)
  • strasse (road)
  • bauigel (constructor)
  • route_fuer (route_for)
  • ribi (direction_bits - I know that this is longer, but it makes what this is about so much clearer))
  • ow (ew)
  • laden (load)
  • doppelr (double)
  • ist_ (is_)
  • gerade (just)
  • hang (slope)
  • optionen (options)
  • kennfarbe (colour)
  • farbengui_t (colour_gui_t)
  • haus (structure - this cannot also be "building")
  • kanal (canal)
  • karte (map)
  • liefere_an (supply)
  • starte_mit_route (start_with_route)
  • hole_ab (unload)
  • get_ware_fuer_zielpos (get_cargo_for_destination_pos)
  • get_ware_summe (get_cargo_amount)
  • ware (cargo)
  • liefere_an_fabrik (deliver_to_factory)
  • sortierung (sorting)
  • welt (world)
  • koord (coord)
  • haltestellen (stops)
  • haltestelle (stop)
  • halthandle (stop_handle)
  • halt (stop)
  • verbrauch (consumption)
  • anzahl (number)
  • kapazitaet (capacity)
  • platzierung (placement)
  • produktivitaet (productivity)
  • bereich (range)
  • gewichtung (chance)
  • lieferanten (suppliers)
  • produkte (products)
  • rauch (smoke)
  • fab (ind)
  • verteile (distribution)
  • ausgang (exit)
  • eingang (entry)
  • vorrat_an (stockpile)
  • fpl (sch)
  • baue (build)
  • hierarchie (chain)
  • zufallsbauplatz (random_building)
  • finde (find)
  • sucher (search)
  • hersteller (producer)
  • bauplatz (place_to_build)
  • spezial (special)
  • bau (build)
  • bewerte (check_value - I am not sure about this translation)
  • wachstum (growth)
  • zufallspunkt (random_point)
  • arbeiterziel (workplace)
  • senke (sink)
  • pumpe (source)
  • linksoben (top_left)
  • rechtsunten (bottom_right)
  • lo (tl)
  • ur (br)
  • bruecke (bridge)
  • baum (tree)
  • karten_boden (surface)
  • natur (empty)
This should probably be done in stages. Are we happy for me to start with the following?

  • get_zeit_ms (get_ticks)
  • vorgaenger (leading)
  • nachfolger (trailing)
  • convoi (consist)
  • convoihandle (consist_handle)
  • fussgaenger_besch_t (pedestrian_base_type_t)

Offline Dwachs

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #281 on: November 26, 2016, 07:30:05 AM »
tile_t in haltestelle_t can be renamed first to something different.

Also I think this thread came to the agreement to translate besch to desc(riptor).

My idea of developing translation patches was to construct csv files, that contain all the replacement. The purpose of this was to make the process as automatic as possible. In fact, all the translation patches I committed to trunk in the last days were done in this way. The only manual adjustment was to revert some changes to strings like "Nord" which are anyway translated on output.

If you provide any patches, I will be happy to include them.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #282 on: November 26, 2016, 12:34:34 PM »
Thank you for that. Perhaps tile_t can become stop_tile_t, so that we then get this:

  • get_zeit_ms (get_ticks)
  • vorgaenger (leading)
  • nachfolger (trailing)
  • convoi (consist)
  • convoihandle (consist_handle)
  • fussgaenger_besch_t (pedestrian_base_type_t)
  • besch (desc)
  • tile_t (stop_tile_t)
  • grund (tile)
  • gr (tile)
  • boden (ground)
  • bd (gr)
  • bild (image - this has already been translated in some places, but remains in others)
  • eintrag (entry)
  • fahrplan (schedule - only the filenames need renaming, I think)
  • gebaeude (building)
  • stadt (city)
  • fabrik (industry)
  • fundament (foundation)
  • planquadrat (grid_square)
  • platzsucher (location_finder)
  • simfab (simindustry)
  • warenzeil (cargo_destination)
  • wasser (water)
  • zeiger (pointer)
  • raucher (smoke_producer)
  • vehikel (vehicle)
  • bauer (builder)
  • linien (line)
  • eintrag (entry)
  • schiene (railway)
  • strasse (road)
  • bauigel (constructor)
  • route_fuer (route_for)
  • ribi (direction_bits - I know that this is longer, but it makes what this is about so much clearer))
  • ow (ew)
  • laden (load)
  • doppelr (double)
  • ist_ (is_)
  • gerade (just)
  • hang (slope)
  • optionen (options)
  • kennfarbe (colour)
  • farbengui_t (colour_gui_t)
  • haus (structure - this cannot also be "building")
  • kanal (canal)
  • karte (map)
  • liefere_an (supply)
  • starte_mit_route (start_with_route)
  • hole_ab (unload)
  • get_ware_fuer_zielpos (get_cargo_for_destination_pos)
  • get_ware_summe (get_cargo_amount)
  • ware (cargo)
  • liefere_an_fabrik (deliver_to_factory)
  • sortierung (sorting)
  • welt (world)
  • koord (coord)
  • haltestellen (stops)
  • haltestelle (stop)
  • halthandle (stop_handle)
  • halt (stop)
  • verbrauch (consumption)
  • anzahl (number)
  • kapazitaet (capacity)
  • platzierung (placement)
  • produktivitaet (productivity)
  • bereich (range)
  • gewichtung (chance)
  • lieferanten (suppliers)
  • produkte (products)
  • rauch (smoke)
  • fab (ind)
  • verteile (distribution)
  • ausgang (exit)
  • eingang (entry)
  • vorrat_an (stockpile)
  • fpl (sch)
  • baue (build)
  • hierarchie (chain)
  • zufallsbauplatz (random_building)
  • finde (find)
  • sucher (search)
  • hersteller (producer)
  • bauplatz (place_to_build)
  • spezial (special)
  • bau (build)
  • bewerte (check_value - I am not sure about this translation)
  • wachstum (growth)
  • zufallspunkt (random_point)
  • arbeiterziel (workplace)
  • senke (sink)
  • pumpe (source)
  • linksoben (top_left)
  • rechtsunten (bottom_right)
  • lo (tl)
  • ur (br)
  • bruecke (bridge)
  • baum (tree)
  • karten_boden (surface)
  • natur (empty)
  • verbindung (connexion)
  • position_bei (get_position)
One disadvantage with the cascade is that we have to translate all of the local variables, too, as tile_t* gr does not make much sense.

I am not quite sure how to set up or use the .csv files to which you refer, but I can certainly supply translation patches (to follow).

Edit: I have added a translation for verbindung and position_bei
« Last Edit: November 26, 2016, 03:51:24 PM by jamespetts »

Offline Dwachs

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #283 on: November 26, 2016, 01:45:04 PM »
Please check out the csv files in this directory: https://github.com/aburch/simutrans/tree/master/translate_code

There is a bash script (for a linux terminal) that will do the translation
Code: [Select]
./batch_replace.sh foo.csv
will replace all pairs in the csv file in all source files in the repository. I do not know how this can be done under windows, but maybe you have a shell available under mingw or git.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #284 on: November 26, 2016, 03:23:44 PM »
Thank you for that.

I am working on the first of the patches now, but I am having trouble with the interaction with the Squirrel API (which I have not updated for Experimental, so of which I do not have experience with working). It seems that there are some references to "convoi" buried in the Squirrel API code that is not part of the Visual Studio project and which is not, therefore, switched out with a search/replace.

Having replaced "convoi" with "consist", I get the following error, suggesting that "convoi" lingers somewhere:

Code: [Select]
1>------ Build started: Project: Simutrans, Configuration: Debug Win32 ------
1>C:\Program Files (x86)\MSBuild\Microsoft.Cpp\v4.0\V140\Microsoft.CppBuild.targets(368,5): warning MSB8004: Output Directory does not end with a trailing slash.  This build instance will add the slash as it is required to allow proper evaluation of the Output Directory.
1>  C:\Users\James\Documents\Development\Simutrans\Sources\trunk\revision.jse(7, 1) WshShell.Exec: The system cannot find the file specified.
1>
1>
1>  simtool.cc
1>c:\users\james\documents\development\simutrans\sources\trunk\gui\components\gui_textinput.h(135): warning C4267: 'return': conversion from 'size_t' to 'scr_coord_val', possible loss of data
1>c:\users\james\documents\development\simutrans\sources\trunk\gui\components/gui_numberinput.h(68): warning C4267: 'argument': conversion from 'size_t' to 'scr_coord_val', possible loss of data
1>simtool.cc(392): warning C4267: 'argument': conversion from 'size_t' to 'uint8', possible loss of data
1>simtool.cc(5355): warning C4244: '=': conversion from 'sint64' to 'sint32', possible loss of data
1>simtool.cc(5423): warning C4244: '=': conversion from 'sint64' to 'sint32', possible loss of data
1>simtool.cc(5518): warning C4244: '=': conversion from 'sint64' to 'sint32', possible loss of data
1>  api_param.cc
1>script\api_param.cc(339): error C2039: 'get': is not a member of 'script_api::param<consist_t *>'
1>  script\api_param.cc(339): note: see declaration of 'script_api::param<consist_t *>'
1>  api_obj_desc.cc
1>  api_consist.cc
1>c:\users\james\documents\development\simutrans\sources\trunk\script\api\../api_function.h(477): error C2039: 'get': is not a member of 'script_api::param<consist_t *>'
1>  c:\users\james\documents\development\simutrans\sources\trunk\script\api\../api_function.h(261): note: see declaration of 'script_api::param<consist_t *>'
1>  c:\users\james\documents\development\simutrans\sources\trunk\script\api\../api_function.h(476): note: while compiling class template member function 'SQInteger script_api::embed_call_t<F>::call_function(HSQUIRRELVM,R (__cdecl *)(A1,A2),bool)'
1>          with
1>          [
1>              F=script_api::call_tool_init (__cdecl *)(consist_t *,const char *),
1>              R=script_api::call_tool_init,
1>              A1=consist_t *,
1>              A2=const char *
1>          ]
1>  c:\users\james\documents\development\simutrans\sources\trunk\script\api\../api_function.h(193): note: see reference to function template instantiation 'SQInteger script_api::embed_call_t<F>::call_function(HSQUIRRELVM,R (__cdecl *)(A1,A2),bool)' being compiled
1>          with
1>          [
1>              F=script_api::call_tool_init (__cdecl *)(consist_t *,const char *),
1>              R=script_api::call_tool_init,
1>              A1=consist_t *,
1>              A2=const char *
1>          ]
1>  c:\users\james\documents\development\simutrans\sources\trunk\script\api\../api_function.h(271): note: see reference to class template instantiation 'script_api::embed_call_t<F>' being compiled
1>          with
1>          [
1>              F=script_api::call_tool_init (__cdecl *)(consist_t *,const char *)
1>          ]
1>  c:\users\james\documents\development\simutrans\sources\trunk\script\api\../api_function.h(269): note: while compiling class template member function 'std::string script_api::func_signature_t<F>::get_squirrel_type(bool,int)'
1>          with
1>          [
1>              F=script_api::call_tool_init (__cdecl *)(consist_t *,const char *)
1>          ]
1>  c:\users\james\documents\development\simutrans\sources\trunk\script\api\../api_function.h(109): note: see reference to function template instantiation 'std::string script_api::func_signature_t<F>::get_squirrel_type(bool,int)' being compiled
1>          with
1>          [
1>              F=script_api::call_tool_init (__cdecl *)(consist_t *,const char *)
1>          ]
1>  c:\users\james\documents\development\simutrans\sources\trunk\script\api\../api_function.h(105): note: see reference to class template instantiation 'script_api::func_signature_t<F>' being compiled
1>          with
1>          [
1>              F=script_api::call_tool_init (__cdecl *)(consist_t *,const char *)
1>          ]
1>  script\api\api_consist.cc(204): note: see reference to function template instantiation 'void script_api::register_method<script_api::call_tool_init(__cdecl *)(consist_t *,const char *)>(HSQUIRRELVM,F,const char *,bool,bool)' being compiled
1>          with
1>          [
1>              F=script_api::call_tool_init (__cdecl *)(consist_t *,const char *)
1>          ]
1>c:\users\james\documents\development\simutrans\sources\trunk\script\api\../api_function.h(477): error C3861: 'get': identifier not found
1>  ai_goods.cc
1>player\ai_goods.cc(316): warning C4244: 'argument': conversion from 'sint16' to 'uint8', possible loss of data
1>player\ai_goods.cc(326): warning C4244: 'argument': conversion from 'sint16' to 'uint8', possible loss of data
========== Build: 0 succeeded, 1 failed, 0 up-to-date, 0 skipped ==========

Edit: The patch that is giving me these errors is here.

Offline Dwachs

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #285 on: November 26, 2016, 04:39:57 PM »
Somehow you did not patch script/api_param.h

But why would you replace convoy with consist? I think there are more urgent things to translate?

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #286 on: November 26, 2016, 05:10:02 PM »
Ahh, thank you. That file was missing from the Visual Studio solution for some reason. A corrected patch is here.

The reason that I am doing them in this order is that I think that it is probably more efficient simply to go through the above in list order and keep going until it is all done.

Offline Dwachs

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #287 on: November 26, 2016, 06:04:33 PM »
Personally, I do not like the change convoy -> consist.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #288 on: November 26, 2016, 06:07:51 PM »
Personally, I do not like the change convoy -> consist.

We have to choose something, and that seems to be the clearest of all the suggestions so far. May I ask what you dislike about it?

I had hoped that any issues such as this could have been identified before I actually produced the patch, which is why I posed the question earlier.

Offline Dwachs

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #289 on: November 26, 2016, 07:53:53 PM »
It is just out of nostalgia, and the feeling that this change is not the most pressing issue. For instance, the convoy/consist interface could need translation. I do not want to play gatekeeper here, if there is support for this idea, then I will apply the patch.

What is your plan? You want to apply the list line by line? My idea was to do the translation in file by file (or directory by directory). Or at least in logical units: all grund_t, all *_Besch_t, etc.

I always read your as if it were your private list to help understand some German words.

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #290 on: November 26, 2016, 08:37:21 PM »
The idea is indeed to apply the list line by line: that is one of the the reasons that I compiled it. I have not sought to prioritise any of the translations compared to others because the idea is to do all of it as fast as possible, and thinking about the order in which to do them will take unnecessary time. If they are all done quickly, then the sequence will make little difference. The importance of speed is that the prevalence of non-English words in the code appears to act as a serious deterrent to would-be developers.

Offline Ters

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #291 on: November 26, 2016, 10:02:32 PM »
You should at least take the undisputed things first, so that you don't waste time doing the wrong translation or getting stuck waiting for a decision to be made. I'm not sure convoi, besch and the grund/boden things have been settled.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #292 on: November 26, 2016, 10:48:24 PM »
I did not realise that these things were disputed - that is why I posted the list and asked whether people were in agreement with it. Does anyone have any better ideas for "convoi" than "consist"? If not, surely it is better to have "consist" than retain "convoi", which is not an English word?

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #293 on: November 26, 2016, 11:00:44 PM »
consist is only trains, but not cars, tugs, or anything else. And cnv is really heavenly used in the code. Third, convoi is not German either.

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #294 on: November 26, 2016, 11:55:36 PM »
Are you sure with that the translation gerade = just?

One of the meanings of "gerade" is really "just". But I guess that "straight" is what the simutrans code means.

Offline Ters

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #295 on: November 27, 2016, 12:06:38 AM »
Are you sure with that the translation gerade = just?

One of the meanings of "gerade" is really "just". But I guess that "straight" is what the simutrans code means.

I've already mentioned that, which shows that jamespetts keeps working from an outdated list. And considering how the discussion went in every which way because there were a lot of words to decide on at once, keeping the list up-to-date is not easy.

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #296 on: November 27, 2016, 12:38:07 AM »
convoi = convoy
convoy = vehicle

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #297 on: November 27, 2016, 11:27:43 AM »
The word "consist" in its American usage to refer to the vehicles of which a train consists seems equally apt to apply, for Simutrans purposes, to other sets of vehicles which run together (such as a horse pulling a carriage or canal boat or an articulated lorry). Certainly, there is not another word that describes things so clearly; even the word that I had suggested earlier, "assemblage", is not clearer. The fact that the use of "consist" is railway specific is probably because there is no particular reason to refer to such things outside the railway context with that degree of specificity, and a loose use of "vehicle" will suffice for an articulated lorry or horse and carriage.

In any event, surely "consist" is better than "convoi", which is not an English word at all, but resembles the English word "convoy" which means something different entirely?

As to the uses of "cnv", as you will note from looking at the patch, this changes "cnv" to "cnst" to match "consist".

If people would like to agree on a word other than "consist" (such as "assemblage", although that might give the somewhat unfortunate "****" as an abbreviation; one is put in mind of donkey-drawn carriages, I suppose), I can update my patch for that other word, but we really do need something other than "convoi" if we are to make the code consistently use English words.

As to "gerade", I note the improved translation suggestion and will add that to the next revision of the list. The reason that I have a long list, incidentally, is that it is intended to be as comprehensive as possible, as it is important, for the purpose of encouraging new coders, to be as thorough and as swift as possible in this project. If I have made any other errors in my latest list, please do let me know so that I can produce an improved version.

Offline Dwachs

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #298 on: November 27, 2016, 02:02:47 PM »
I modified the list. Imho some proposals do not sound right
  • get_zeit_ms (get_ticks)
  • vorgaenger (leading) - leader
  • nachfolger (trailing) - follower
  • convoi (consist) - should stay
  • convoihandle (consist_handle) - should stay
  • fussgaenger_besch_t (pedestrian_base_type_t) - pedestrian_desc_t
  • besch (desc)
  • tile_t (stop_tile_t)
  • grund (tile)
  • gr (tile)
  • boden (ground)
  • bd (gr)
  • gebaeude (building)
  • stadt (city)
  • fabrik (industry)
  • fundament (foundation)
  • planquadrat (grid_square)
  • platzsucher (location_finder)
  • simfab (simindustry)
  • warenziel (cargo_destination)
  • wasser (water)
  • zeiger (pointer)
  • raucher (smoke_producer)
  • vehikel (vehicle)
  • bauer (builder)
  • linien (line) - linie to line, linien to lines
  • schiene (railway) - track
  • strasse (road)
  • bauigel (constructor)
  • route_fuer (route_for)
  • ribi (direction_bits - I know that this is longer, but it makes what this is about so much clearer))
  • laden (load)
  • ist_ (is_)
  • optionen (options)
  • kennfarbe (colour)
  • farbengui_t (colour_gui_t)
  • haus (structure - this cannot also be "building")
  • kanal (canal)
  • karte (map)
  • liefere_an (supply) - supply_factory
  • starte_mit_route (start_with_route)
  • get_ware_fuer_zielpos (get_cargo_for_destination_pos)
  • get_ware_summe (get_cargo_amount)
  • ware (cargo)
  • liefere_an_fabrik (deliver_to_factory)
  • sortierung (sorting)
  • welt (world)
  • koord (coord)
  • haltestellen (stops)
  • haltestelle (stop)
  • halthandle (stop_handle)
  • halt (stop) - why change this?
  • verbrauch (consumption)
  • kapazitaet (capacity)
  • platzierung (placement)
  • produktivitaet (productivity)
  • bereich (range)
  • gewichtung (chance)
  • lieferanten (suppliers)
  • produkte (products)
  • rauch (smoke)
  • fab (ind)
  • verteile (distribution) - distribute
  • ausgang (exit) - output
  • eingang (entry) - input
  • vorrat_an (stockpile)
  • baue (build)
  • hierarchie (chain)
  • zufallsbauplatz (random_building) - random_building_place/site
  • finde (find)
  • sucher (search) - searcher?
  • hersteller (producer)
  • bauplatz (place_to_build)
  • spezial (special)
  • bau (build)
  • bewerte (check_value)  - evaluate[/b]
  • wachstum (growth)
  • zufallspunkt (random_point)
  • arbeiterziel (workplace)
  • senke (sink)
  • pumpe (source)
  • linksoben (top_left)
  • rechtsunten (bottom_right)
  • lo (tl)
  • ur (br)
  • bruecke (bridge)
  • baum (tree)
  • karten_boden (surface)
  • natur (empty)
  • verbindung (connexion) - why x? connection

The following words are already translated: bild, eintrag, fahrplan, position_bei, fpl, anzahl, hang, gerade, doppelr,
the ribi_t and hang_t interface, ow, hole_ab. There is no point to argue about 'gerade', it is already translated to 'straight'.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2016, 05:32:00 PM by Dwachs »

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #299 on: November 27, 2016, 03:42:18 PM »
Thank you very much for that; that is helpful.

Is liefere_an() not also used for things other than factories, or is that just in Experimental? As to "convoi", see my comments above on this issue. In respect of "halt", the word "halt" in English as a noun is typically used to refer specifically to very small rural railway stations: "stop" is the more generic name. Is there a reason that you have put "this cannot also be 'building'" in bold above? As to "connexion", this is the traditional British (rather than American) spelling, and it is used extensively already in Experimental.

Aside from the above issues, do we have consensus on these translations as annotated by Dwachs now?

Offline An_dz

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #300 on: November 27, 2016, 04:57:39 PM »
In respect of "halt", the word "halt" in English as a noun is typically used to refer specifically to very small rural railway stations: "stop" is the more generic name.
I find "halt" better because even though it's only used as "rural railway stations" as you said it's better than a "loose" word as "stop", which has multiple meanings, including being a very common verb.

Is there a reason that you have put "this cannot also be 'building'" in bold above?
Either because "building" is already used in another context in the code or Dwach forgot a question mark.

sucher (search) - searcher?
Finder?

The word "consist" in its American usage to refer to the vehicles of which a train consists seems equally apt to apply, for Simutrans purposes, to other sets of vehicles which run together (such as a horse pulling a carriage or canal boat or an articulated lorry).
The problem with "consist" is that, to us non-natives, its usage as a noun does not exist. We think about the verb and the verb is a term for defining anything that is composed of something.

In any event, surely "consist" is better than "convoi", which is not an English word at all, but resembles the English word "convoy" which means something different entirely?
No, "convoy" is "convoi" but ending with Y. The British got the French word (convoi) and for some reason changed the "I" to an "Y".

As I said before, language is a bunch of made up words and copies of other languages.

For example, as you've noted "assemblage" is an English word, right? Wrong, it's French. Now it's on the English dictionaries but it's 100% equal to the French word. Of course the pronunciation is different, but "assemblage" is merely a copy of French just as "convoy" is "convoi".

What I see is that both "convoi" and "convoy" are used in the code and then their usages are different. Where "convoi" is used it's in the same meaning as "convoy", but where "convoy" is used it's just for a single vehicle. But, maybe, in English a "vehicle" has to contain a motor - it has to pull itself -, while in the Simutrans code "convoy" is used for any piece, including carts and trailers. But I still think that "convoy" should be changed to "vehicle" and "convoi" to "convoy".

Offline Ters

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #301 on: November 27, 2016, 05:00:26 PM »
Should we give everybody time to give their opinion? Not every developer has so yet. Not that we can wait forever.

What I see is that both "convoi" and "convoy" are used in the code and then their usages are different. Where "convoi" is used it's in the same meaning as "convoy", but where "convoy" is used it's just for a single vehicle. But, maybe, in English a "vehicle" has to contain a motor - it has to pull itself -, while in the Simutrans code "convoy" is used for any piece, including carts and trailers. But I still think that "convoy" should be changed to "vehicle" and "convoi" to "convoy".

There are no convoys in Simutrans by the definition of the word I know. A convoy is a group of independent vehicles travelling together as a group, convoi_t is either a single independent vehicle or multiple dependent and optionally independent vehicles joined together as a supervehicle.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2016, 05:12:04 PM by Ters »

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #302 on: November 27, 2016, 05:08:20 PM »
An_Dz

"Stop" is very commonly used to refer to a place that a transport service with a regular schedule stops: indeed, it is the most standard way of describing this. "Halt" is quite obscure in this context. I do think that "stop" is clearer here. What are others' views?

"Finder" seems sensible.

As to whether something is an English word or not, I refer not to its origin (as almost every word in English has its origin in some forebear language that is not English), but to whether that word with that spelling will be found in an English dictionary. It is thus not wrong to say that "assemblage" is an English word in that sense though it has its roots in French. It is in that sense that "convoi" is not an English word, and that is why it is important to change it. The aim of this exercise is to standardise upon one widely spoken language for the names of variables, functions, classes and files in the code. That aim is not served by retaining non-English words such as "convoi".

As to "vehicle", the standard English usage of this word does not require that it be powered (so a railway carriage or a horse drawn cart are both considered to be vehicles), and the word "vehikel" (which needs to be translated to "vehicle") is currently used in the code to refer to the individual vehicles rather than to assemblages of them. As noted before, "convoy" refers to a succession of independently operated vehicles rather than to something like a train where multiple vehicles are connected together and driven as one. Thus, not "vehicle", "convoy" nor "convoi" is suitable to be used where "convoi" is currently used in the code.

Ters

How long do you suggest?

Offline kierongreen

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #303 on: November 27, 2016, 06:07:19 PM »
From Dwachs list I agree with him about pedestrian_desc, track, distribute, output, input, halt and connection. I also agree with convoy being preferable to consist.

The rest I don't have any strong feelings about.

Offline isidoro

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #304 on: November 27, 2016, 09:03:36 PM »
To add to the debate: I would keep convoi and halt.  Reason is practical: those words didn't pose a problem to me when dealing with the code for the first time.  Just the opposite with the other words.  So, it isn't worth the effort to change them.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #305 on: November 27, 2016, 09:14:46 PM »
To add to the debate: I would keep convoi and halt.  Reason is practical: those words didn't pose a problem to me when dealing with the code for the first time.  Just the opposite with the other words.  So, it isn't worth the effort to change them.


As to the effort, I should note that I have already expended the effort in creating a patch for Standard changing "convoi" to "consist", so this is not an issue. It would actually have to be better overall, in the long-term for the word "convoi" to continue to be used in the code for there to be a reason to keep this.

Offline prissi

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #306 on: November 27, 2016, 10:56:39 PM »
I still would like to keep thing not tranlating because it feels better. Programming is about abstraction.

Whether is is halt or stop, or convoi or consist its abstract function will be the same. But renaming will either create inconsitiencies in the scripting or require again changing of script for tutorials etc.

And about following vehicle, I still think trailer is a better translation than follower (which I expect is not neccessarily connected to the leader). That was why I suggested leading/trailing (and for factories then supplying and producing for the hersteller/verbraucher there).

Also senke is rather drain, as it drains the current (and in transistors/diodes there is also source and drain).

input/output may clash with libraries. I think that goods_in and goods_out can do the trick even better.

I find nowhere in the code optionen, only as a file name (which would be then option_frame) Same for simfab. But renaming may throw away change log.

My comments on Dwachs comment on the original list:
  • get_zeit_ms (get_ticks)
  • vorgaenger (leading)  s.a.
  • nachfolger (trailing)
  • convoi not renaming
  • tile_t (stop_tile_t)
  • grund (tile)
  • gr (tile)
  • boden (ground)
  • bd (gr)
  • gebaeude (building)
  • stadt (city)
  • fabrik (industry)
  • fundament (foundation)
  • planquadrat (grid_square) - maybe grind_tile?
  • platzsucher (location_finder)
  • simfab (simfactory) - where is this in the code?
  • warenziel (destination) - also for passengers and mail so no cargo_ prefix
  • wasser (water)
  • zeiger (indicator) - because pointer is something else in C++
  • raucher (smoker) - because those produce smoke anyway
  • vehikel (vehicle)
  • bauer (builder)
  • linien (line) - linie to line, linien to lines
  • schiene (railway) - track
  • strasse (road)
  • bauigel (constructor)
  • route_fuer (route_for)
  • ribi (dirs) - since it is used so much
  • dirs (haedings) - since it is used much less
  • laden (loading) - since that is what it does
  • ist_ (is_)
  • farbengui_t (colour_gui_t)
  • haus (structure - this cannot also be "building")
  • kanal (canal)
  • karte (map)
  • liefere_an (dispatch OR handling OR receive) - because the stop recieves that paket and will handle it further
  • starte_mit_route (start_with_route)
  • get_ware_fuer_zielpos (get_cargo_for_destination) the _pos seems superfluous
  • get_ware_summe (get_cargo_amount)
  • ware (cargo)
  • liefere_an_fabrik (deliver_to_factory)
  • sortierung (sorting)
  • welt (world)
  • koord (coord) again, without diving into regions, there are three different coords, like scr_coord and map_coord (2D) and tile_coord (3D) That renaming would go beyond simple text replacing, if done properly.
  • haltestellen (all_halt) - as said, halt seems to me more a station thing, while stop includes red signals, crossings and traffic lights
  • haltestelle (halt) - dito
  • halthandle (halt_handle) - dito
  • halt (halt)  - dito
  • verbrauch (consumption)
  • kapazitaet (capacity)
  • platzierung (location) - since it is coast etc.
  • produktivitaet (productivity)
  • bereich (range)
  • gewichtung (chance)
  • lieferanten (suppliers)
  • produkte (products)
  • rauch (smoke)
  • fab (fac OR fact) - forest or fisheries are rarely industries, which seems rather name an entire chain
  • verteile (distribution) - distribute
  • ausgang (goods_in) - exit and entry as well as output and input are dangerously close to future resevered keywords or library routines
  • eingang (goods_out) - dito
  • vorrat_an (stockpile)
  • baue (build)
  • hierarchie (chain)
  • zufallsbauplatz (random_building) - random_building_place/site
  • finde (find)
  • sucher (finder) - to be consistent
  • hersteller (producer)
  • bauplatz (place_to_build) - building_site?
  • optionen (options)
  • kennfarbe (colour)
  • bau (build)
  • bewerte (evaluate) - yeah, I prefer verbs
  • wachstum (growth)
  • zufallspunkt (random_coord)
  • arbeiterziel (workplace)
  • senke (drain) - at least in electronics it is source to drain currents in transistors ...
  • pumpe (source)
  • linksoben (upper_left) not care too much, could live with top_ too
  • rechtsunten (bottom_right)
  • lo (upper_left) - write them out to make clear, only a few places anyway
  • ur (bottom_right) - dito
  • bruecke (bridge)
  • baum (tree)
  • karten_boden (surface)
  • verbindung (connexion) - x seems strange to me too, would prefer connection

Some I could not find ...
  • natur (empty) - not in the code???
  • spezial (special) - not in the code???

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #307 on: November 27, 2016, 11:39:23 PM »
Prissi,

thank you: that is very helpful. The ribi/dirs suggestion is a good one, as it keeps this as short as it was originally intended. I do prefer "leading" and "trailing", as these participle verbs are often used as adjectives in English.

As to factory/industry, "industry" refers traditionally just to people doing productive work, being the abstract noun form of "industrious". It is only in the 19th century that it became a non-abstract noun to refer to what were then modern means of production. "Industry" thus applies to anything that is covered by the "fabrik_t" class in Simutrans. "Factory", on the other hand, comes from "Manufactory", a place where goods are manufactured. Its meaning is thus much narrower than "industry", and would not be apt to cover mines, farms, fisheries or shops in the way that "industry" would. "Ind" is a good abbreviation for "industry".

spezial_filter can be found in convoi_frame.cc.

I cannot find "natur" either now - it may have been included in error, although I am not sure from where it comes.

Splitting the different types of co-ordinates for different purposes (as in scr_coord) can be done after and separately to changing "koord" to "coord".

Offline Ters

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #308 on: November 28, 2016, 06:05:51 AM »
Also senke is rather drain, as it drains the current (and in transistors/diodes there is also source and drain).

Transistors seems to be the only case which uses drain with source. Source-sink seems to be quite the established pair in other fields. Perhaps most importantly here: graph theory. This is perhaps not relevant, though.

Offline prissi

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #309 on: November 28, 2016, 08:54:20 PM »
Well, the device which does the current sinking, is called a programmable load. Maybe source and load?

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #310 on: November 29, 2016, 08:58:47 PM »
We probably ought to use the correct terminology that apply to substations in the real world, ought we not?

Offline prissi

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #311 on: November 29, 2016, 09:19:46 PM »
The end user is a consumer, but that is already in use elesewhere ...

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #312 on: November 29, 2016, 09:22:45 PM »
One could have "consumer_substation" and "producer_substation"?

Offline prissi

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #313 on: December 07, 2016, 10:27:11 PM »
bild_besch.h/cc contains now the image_t type and no single instance of bild anymore. Maybe also rename this to image_besch.h/cc?

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: German in the code
« Reply #314 on: December 07, 2016, 10:59:24 PM »
bild_besch.h/cc contains now the image_t type and no single instance of bild anymore. Maybe also rename this to image_besch.h/cc?

This seems sensible to me. Sorry that I have not had a chance to progress this of late: I have been spending all of my Simutrans time trying to track down and fix some very difficult desync bugs.