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Author Topic: [List] Interaction of Cities, People and Goods  (Read 1943 times)

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Offline colonyan

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[List] Interaction of Cities, People and Goods
« on: March 30, 2010, 03:30:40 PM »

   Just of as reference and archive I'd like to list down the how cities behave in
   other games which deal with cities transformation.

   1. Primary resource type dominates growth. (population//primary resource)
   2. Secondary resource type to control higher density, wealth growth.
   3. Specific resource type required to growth to occur depending on climate
       zone of the city where it is located.
   4. Specific raw material required to city to grow.
   5. Strong passenger destination trend (commuter) depending on city.
   6. Shrink when it has no interaction at all after certain time.
   7. Larger cities consumes more sophisticated products.

   Below is my interpretation in whats going on in real world.
   I know its not always a solution to imitate the real world but just as info.

   1. Material/manufacturing industries creates employments.
      (all industry types, freight services )
   2. Service/commercial sector emerges thanks to manufacturing industries.
       (banking, retail, insurance, real estate, communication, publishing, corporates etc)
   3. 1&2 supports middle class and spawns tourists and business passenger for
        further service/commercial development(population growth (new industry))

   All further growth depends on steady servicing and expansion of step 1.
   That's why coal, iron ore, petroleum, grain etc are called strategic material.
   (Very important resources)

Offline gauthier

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Re: [List] Interaction of Cities, People and Goods
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2010, 04:40:54 PM »
You're write ... but ST isn't neither a citybuilder nor a real city simulation game.

The current system of grow and grow cities is the most simple and the most adapted to a transport simulation game.

Offline colonyan

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Re: [List] Interaction of Cities, People and Goods
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2010, 05:17:21 PM »
   City number, size and location determines how we build network and how
   vehicles travel.
   Thus, if each cities grow differently and ask for different cargoes, this
   presents more variation in game play.
   What it is now is this.

    - Transportation simulation under circumstance where all cities grow
      under same rule and any occurred growth is irreversible.
    It is simple but to call it most adapted or not, it is too subjective.
    At least, I find it "too simplistic".

   That's why we need some simulation aspect on city behavior or economy.
   In extreme we even don't need to simulated. We can invent certain rule
   so it seems like it is simulated.
   EDIT: Or at least whenever coder shows interest or more later ( as this
             game has so much possibilities, decades) as I learn more about
             coding AND learn ST code I might do it...
             I post these things to not lose my motivation.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 05:23:10 PM by colonyan »

Offline vilvoh

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Re: [List] Interaction of Cities, People and Goods
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2010, 03:29:43 PM »
Well, as far as I've read from developer's comments (mainly from Prissi) it's not a matter of complexity, but efficiency. I mean, we must find an algoritm as simple as posible that doesn't take a lot of memory and cpu.

All the points you mention are very interesting, but how can me mix them, probably not all, in a simple algorithm. As far as I know, the current one works this way: if there're roads, buildings and free space, there will be new roads and buildings. Slightly varied but simple. Imho, as Simutrans is not a game focused on city development, we should keep that part simple but fun enough.

Some ideas: the same way that homeless and unemploy figures decide the type of new buildings that appear in cities (I don't know how the engine calculates those figures) we could include several new aspects like primary resource, secondary resource, passengers in an out the city, etc.. all considered within city limits to define the future grow of cities.

Offline colonyan

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Re: [List] Interaction of Cities, People and Goods
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2010, 05:17:40 PM »

    Thank you for reply gauthier and vilvoh.
    I just want to have rough talk what could be fun. I'm no way bring in this to request section at least for
    years to come or never if it does not conclude.

    I must clarify again, I'm not saying that we should be able to build school or hospital for cities.
    Just that we answer what customer wants but those requests from customer will be more
    variable and different. And also, the characteristics of the cities.
    @vilvoh, I agree with you if algorithm got introduced it better be simple. And I think there's no need
                  to change city rule from what I see. Its more about how they grow(in population count).
                  Also as you pointed out, some kind of primary and secondary resource playing part in the game 
                  sounds interesting. And those resource act as fuel of growth. Like on/off switch.

    Blue Prints

    P/M vs Freight
    As basic matter of transportation game, there will be passenger/mail and freight group.
    I think cities should be able to grow even if only passenger/mail being served.
    But my ideal is that it will be extremely slow. As of including some economic reality to simulation,
    there got to be industry.
    But this does not mean that weight of freight is very heavy.
    Again, both must be served to see certain degree of change. So it will be not 40% + 20% + 20% =80%,
    but one triggers one other.