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Author Topic: Underground station extensions  (Read 22335 times)

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Offline greephus

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2010, 03:05:14 PM »
Problem solved! I just reinstalled the JPN Ungerpass package and now working fine :)
The button was missing.

Offline victor_18993

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2011, 04:23:02 PM »
Thans for your answer!
I mean this one, pls see screenshot.
Unfortunately there is no tunnel option under shiptools.
Hi greephus I would like to know where to download these add. thaks

Offline greephus

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2011, 07:49:46 AM »
Hi greephus I would like to know where to download these add. thaks


Hi victor,

here you can find some really nice addon ;)

http://japanese.simutrans.com/index.php?Site_Map



Hi greephus I would like to know where to download these add. thaks


...underpass set is under this link:

http://japanese.simutrans.com/index.php?Addon128/RoadTools%201

Mod note: please do not double-post. Edit your last comment instead.
~IgorEliezer

« Last Edit: March 21, 2011, 08:16:21 AM by IgorEliezer »

Offline neroden

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2011, 12:12:31 AM »
Hmm.  How difficult *would* it be to add a flag to buildings saying "can be built underground in sliced mode", and then to make it possible to actually do that?

At the moment I'm still trying to fix code merge problems, but this might be an "easy" project (if someone else doesn't get to it first).

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #39 on: December 07, 2011, 12:33:06 AM »
Nathaneal - I was planning something similar for Experimental: see here for details. It will be a long time before I get around to it, though, so if you can make a patch for Standard in the meantime, that would be most worthwhile (and be one less piece of Experimental specific code to maintain). See my description in that post (last item) as to how I suggest that this be implemented for maximum flexibility.

Offline Fabio

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #40 on: December 07, 2011, 11:40:27 AM »
Here's James's idea:

Stops/signals/roadsigns that can be built only underground or only above ground
It would be helpful for the purposes of developing underground railways were it possible to restrict certain station types to above ground/underground. This way, the cost of building underground can properly be modelled, as well as creating the right appearance for underground stations (as it looks absurd, for example, for underground stations to have overall roofs or flower beds).

The best way of doing this would be to add a flag to the .dat files of objects "allow_underground". If "allow_underground=0" is set, the stop/roadsign/signal cannot be built underground. If "allow_underground=1" is set (which should be the default), the stop/roadsign/signal can be built underground or overground. If "allow_underground=2" is set, the stop/roadsign/signal can be built only underground.

The GUI for this would need to follow the current pattern of dealing with things that can and cannot be built underground: in underground mode, for example, the menu buttons for station extensions are hidden. The same effect would be needed here: in overground mode, only stations/etc. that can be built overground should be shown; in full underground mode, only stations, etc. that can be built underground should be shown; and in sliced underground mode, all stations, etc. should be shown.

Offline Fabio

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #41 on: October 11, 2012, 03:46:10 PM »
I'd certainly support extension buildings that could be built underground (currently they can only be built above ground).  I'd also like additional parameters in the dats which allow platforms to be built either only underground or only above ground, e.g.
Code: [Select]
allow_underground = 1 or 0
allow_aboveground = 1 or 0

Bumping this request, considering this thread: http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=10126.msg101685#msg101685

Offline greenling

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #42 on: October 11, 2012, 04:38:50 PM »
Fabio
This idea it crazy.

Offline gauthier

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #43 on: October 13, 2012, 03:33:57 PM »
This thread is about stations extensions, nothing in common with Mega's stations and depots.

Offline prissi

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #44 on: October 14, 2012, 07:54:14 AM »
How would you built an underground only extension building in full underground mode? Those would only be builtable in sliced mode.

But other than that the modifications needed are small. I think in underground mode also some tunnel should be able to be built without portal. If we allow this, some pedestrians roads (system type 255, like fences etc.) could be easily added too.

Offline Fabio

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #45 on: October 14, 2012, 09:27:13 AM »
This thread is about stations extensions, nothing in common with Mega's stations and depots.

I remembered this thread from the past and the idea born here that I quoted:
I'd also like additional parameters in the dats which allow platforms to be built either only underground or only above ground, e.g.
Code: [Select]
allow_underground = 1 or 0
allow_aboveground = 1 or 0

This would be needed for mEGa's platforms (but also to restrict some platforms to above ground only).

Offline Ters

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #46 on: October 14, 2012, 09:48:13 AM »
How would you built an underground only extension building in full underground mode? Those would only be builtable in sliced mode.

That's not much of a restriction. I have hardly used full underground mode since sliced underground appeared.

Offline gauthier

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #47 on: October 14, 2012, 06:57:00 PM »
Quote
How would you built an underground only extension building in full underground mode? Those would only be builtable in sliced mode.

It's not a problem.
Pedestrian roads would be an interesting way of connecting two stations.

In fact Fabio's idea is nice.

Offline isidoro

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #48 on: October 14, 2012, 10:07:05 PM »
How would you built an underground only extension building in full underground mode? Those would only be builtable in sliced mode.
[...]

Once we have sliced mode, is there a necessity for full underground?
If we get rid of it, interface would be much cleaner.  For instance, it is quite weird for a newbie that you have to build underground tracks with the tunnel tool.  One would expect to use the same track tool to build under and overground, though charged differently...

Vertical entrances would be a plus too.  You'd be allowed to keep a diagonal track with no deviation going underground...


Offline Carl

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #49 on: October 14, 2012, 10:18:58 PM »
It's nice to have the option to look at the whole of the underground network at once, rather than only one level at a time.

Offline Ters

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #50 on: October 14, 2012, 10:24:09 PM »
Full underground offers a full overview (or is it underview). It is also more suited when building upwards sloping tunnels, something which I've underused it for since I hardly remember it.

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #51 on: October 14, 2012, 11:22:04 PM »
Unless I am building very complex underground interchanges I stick to full underground mode rather than sliced - it gives you a much better idea of how everything fits together in my opinion.

Offline Ters

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #52 on: October 15, 2012, 07:04:10 AM »
Unless I am building very complex underground interchanges I stick to full underground mode rather than sliced - it gives you a much better idea of how everything fits together in my opinion.

Almost the opposite of what I was thinking. It is for complex layouts that I would need the full view, so that I don't slope up or down until I've passed the overlying or underlying tunnel, and can continue building after sloping up. But maybe I don't have complex enough underground layouts.

Despite differing views on what it's useful for, we agree that it is useful.

Offline Fabio

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #53 on: October 15, 2012, 09:55:41 AM »
In full underground mode, extensions could be built at the same z-coord as the adjacent station.
If there are adjacent stations at different z-coords, well, return an error saying the program can't guess the right location ;)

Offline Roads

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #54 on: October 15, 2012, 10:26:38 AM »
Kinda embarrassed to ask this but what is full underground mode or how do you access it?

Offline Ters

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #55 on: October 15, 2012, 10:31:12 AM »
Shift+U in pak64 at least.

Offline Fabio

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #56 on: October 15, 2012, 10:42:21 AM »
In Pak128 as well!

Offline Sarlock

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #57 on: October 15, 2012, 02:41:05 PM »
I usually use full underground mode to check on things, to see the interactions between multiple levels and use the sliced mode for most construction.

Offline Roads

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #58 on: October 15, 2012, 08:42:56 PM »
Thanks guys but I don't see any difference between using cntrl+u and clicking sliced map view.  On this subject though there is one thing I wished we had - that is for grid to turn white or some light color so you can see it.  Trying to figure out where the squares are is literally like feeling around in the dark.

Offline Ters

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #59 on: October 15, 2012, 09:49:27 PM »
You won't see much difference unless there is something underground. You'll never see whats above ground when in full undergroup, while sliced underground will show everything on the selected level, whether above ground or not.

Trying to pinpoint a location in three dimensions using full underground is almost impossible, which is perhaps (one of) the reason(s) sliced underground was made.

Offline isidoro

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #60 on: October 15, 2012, 10:56:19 PM »
For me, the problem with current full underground mode is that it is very difficult to imagine at what level you are building/connecting due to the perspective used in ST.  Besides, most underground real life works is done level-wise, isn't it?

With sliced mode, I build layer by layer and then, make the suitable connections among them.  The semantics imposed by old full underground (tunnel track vs. normal track) makes no sense to me and was very confusing to me when I started playing.

My idea is not to get rid of the "full underground view", but the full underground special building tools.  Why wouldn't I have in a real case the same kind of track at 50kmh both over and underground?


Offline An_dz

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #61 on: October 16, 2012, 01:25:57 AM »
I can't remember any game I've played with an easy underground mode, the only exception is RollerCoaster Tycoon 2 with a kinda easy underground mode.

I can't find a screen from RCT2 now.

Offline Ters

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #62 on: October 16, 2012, 07:00:33 AM »
My idea is not to get rid of the "full underground view", but the full underground special building tools.  Why wouldn't I have in a real case the same kind of track at 50kmh both over and underground?

Is there a difference between full underground tools and sliced underground tools? But that's a different thread, isn't it?

Offline wlindley us

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #63 on: February 06, 2013, 06:24:09 PM »
The latest Experimental, at least, lets you define extension buildings that are only to be built in underground mode. Unfortunately, they wind up at the surface, regardless of where the cursor was when you built them.  Here's an excerpt of the .dat file and a screenshot of what happens. 

Code: [Select]
Obj=building
Name=LT_Ticket_Hall
type=extension
waytype=track
copyright=wlindley and Timothy Baldock
enables_pax=1
enables_post=0
enables_ware=0
NoInfo=1
NoConstruction=1
allow_underground=1
Dims=1,1,1
Level=4
intro_year=1890
intro_month=11

.pak and source code: http://wlindley.com/simutrans/underground-hall.zip

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #64 on: February 06, 2013, 09:43:21 PM »
Yes, I am aware of this - I tried to change the code to allow underground stations, but abandoned the project as it seemed to require too fundamental a set of changes to be practicable at the time. It should be possible in theory, but will need more work. I do like your structure, however!

Offline ӔO

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Re: Underground station extensions
« Reply #65 on: February 07, 2013, 04:29:14 AM »
Some thought on an easier to use underground/overground structure system. I think a system of cubes, like in minecraft, instead of squares/tiles, would be the most satisfying to the end user. Then you can dig out the cubes underneath existing structures without doing surgery that leaves scars at the surface.

But, rather obviously, that's a major change to the existing system and who knows how many hundreds of hours of coding required.