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Author Topic: City roads timeline discussion  (Read 20354 times)

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Offline Fabio

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City roads timeline discussion
« on: May 03, 2010, 09:29:53 AM »
Love the new city roads timeline feature - makes things a great deal more controllable for pakset authors, and makes things make much more sense generally. Excellent addition!

Can anybody point me where it's announced / how should it be coded?
This will go straight into my replacement project!
« Last Edit: May 04, 2010, 07:46:10 AM by fabio »

Offline The Hood

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Re: City roads timeline
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2010, 09:57:49 AM »

Offline prissi

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Re: City roads timeline
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2010, 07:47:29 PM »
No city roads in pak britain after 2050???

Offline The Hood

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Re: City roads timeline
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2010, 08:11:50 PM »
2050 is the official end date of the pak (for the time being at least).  There's not much of anything beyond 2020 so it gets a bit boring after then...

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: City roads timeline
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2010, 09:25:14 PM »
I thought that 2050 was the highest date that would be recognised. If a higher date can be used, I can change it easily in the Experimental version.

Offline Fabio

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Re: City roads timeline
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2010, 07:43:50 AM »
Thanks a lot!

Another question:
When a the date changes, how is their replacement working?

Offline The Hood

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Re: City roads timeline discussion
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2010, 08:16:11 AM »
As far as I can tell it affects new cityroads, including those where an adjacent building is upgraded.  It doesn't all upgrade at once.

Offline Fabio

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Re: City roads timeline discussion
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2010, 09:57:30 AM »
Good, I think it is the way it should.
Also in RL roads are NEVER replaced all at once, but gradually...
I like it!

Offline prissi

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Re: City roads timeline discussion
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2010, 01:01:02 PM »
About endign dates: Most very much developed games I got are well beyond 2200, because otherwise it is very hard to construct all those stuff in recent time.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: City roads timeline discussion
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2010, 09:45:37 PM »
So better set the latest dates to 2999?

Offline Dwachs

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Re: City roads timeline discussion
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2010, 06:42:26 AM »
Why not?

However, simutrans should not crash if no city-road is defined (ie if year is before/after all definitions of city-roads).

Offline VS

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Re: City roads timeline discussion
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2010, 10:33:52 AM »
Best is setting no retire date, of course. Why does everyone insist on filling in random "good enough for myself" values?

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: City roads timeline discussion
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2010, 01:41:15 PM »
Does setting no retire date work with the default city road types? I know that it works with things like vehicles and buildings, but I don't think that it works in this case, because the code is different, but I could be wrong.

Offline VS

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Re: City roads timeline discussion
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2010, 02:26:45 PM »
Roads in 128 have no retire dates, so it seems that way ;)

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: City roads timeline discussion
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2010, 02:33:45 PM »
VS,

do you mean the retirement dates in the roads' .dat files, or the dates specified in the new simuconf.tab parameters?

Offline The Hood

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Re: City roads timeline discussion
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2010, 02:49:36 PM »
If no road is specified in simuconf.tab, then the default is "city_road".  At least that used to be the behaviour - is that still the case?

Offline VS

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Re: City roads timeline discussion
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2010, 05:38:15 PM »
Ah, apologies then - I meant dat files. Still, the point stands - some way to make things last infinitely makes life for everyone easier.

Offline Dwachs

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Re: City roads timeline discussion
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2010, 06:07:42 PM »
If no road is specified in simuconf.tab, then the default is "city_road".  At least that used to be the behaviour - is that still the case?
No.

Offline prissi

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Re: City roads timeline discussion
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2010, 08:58:12 PM »
ANd indeed, you can omit retirement parameters in simuconf.tab too.

Offline The Hood

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Re: City roads timeline discussion
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2010, 08:12:10 AM »
Thanks for the clarification prissi and Dwachs.  I will change pak128.Britain to have the final city road with no retire year in simuconf.tab.

Offline VS

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Re: City roads timeline discussion
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2010, 08:58:45 AM »
Perfect, I'll change simuconf as well. Thanks a lot for the feature :)

Offline Fabio

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Re: City roads timeline discussion
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2010, 02:15:41 PM »
Bumping this old thread for a bit of extension request :)

I would like newer cityroads NOT to replace older ones, if not manually (using cityroad tool).
An older city centre would have older streets, unless manually changed.
What do you  think?

Offline Dwachs

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Re: City roads timeline discussion
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2010, 07:07:22 PM »
? The city roads are not updated unless a new city building is created.

Btw, there is now a general_tool[36] that can be used in menuconf.tab to define a timeline aware cityroad building tool.

Offline skreyola

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Re: City roads timeline discussion
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2010, 05:04:01 PM »
I think it should be an option:
0 - City roads remain original
1 - City roads update when an adjacent building is built/updated
2 - City roads update like IRL (including a period of "road construction" when a large section of the street is blocked, hehe), that is, as often as new roads come out, but at least once a year.

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: City roads timeline discussion
« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2010, 01:08:10 AM »
Ooh, that would be an interesting dynamic... "Under construction" roads with speed limits reduced by, say, 40%... Under construction for, say, one Simutrans month(day)...

Offline Fabio

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Re: City roads timeline discussion
« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2010, 06:51:39 AM »
? The city roads are not updated unless a new city building is created.
My request applies exactly  to this case: don't update cityroad if there's an older cityroad, not even when updating the adjacent building. Take over different roads, instead. (Allow instead *manually* updating of old cityroads with newer ones)
Similarily, disallow faster roads to be built over cityroads, unless using CTRL (no point in letting them built and, within months, cityroad taking them over again).

Offline skreyola

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Re: City roads timeline discussion
« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2010, 03:53:07 PM »
Similarily, disallow faster roads to be built over cityroads, unless using CTRL (no point in letting them built and, within months, cityroad taking them over again).
This is an important feature I hope gets implemented, at least as an option. I just hope the code is written so that cost for road passing over cityroad will be zero for those tiles where only the path (and not the actual construction) passes over cityroad.

Offline Y5mpF3

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Re: City roads timeline discussion
« Reply #27 on: March 18, 2019, 01:56:38 PM »
Where is the timeline really definited? It is not the simuconf. What I do there has only influence on the roads in map creation.

Offline Leartin at

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Re: City roads timeline discussion
« Reply #28 on: March 18, 2019, 02:07:24 PM »
Most objects have an introduction and retire date, they won't spawn/be placeable before they are introduced or after they are retired. City roads are one exception where it works differently, hence this thread, but otherwise there is no "defined timeline", just a bunch of objects available at different periods.

Though since we are talking about a timeline - while it's admireable that you use the search function, maybe check the date on the posts before you add to them?

Offline Vladki cz

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Re: City roads timeline discussion
« Reply #29 on: March 18, 2019, 06:44:37 PM »
The city roads timeline is indeed defined in simuconf.tab. It is used not only on map creation but also when the city grows, or upgrades buildings. So after the introduction of new city road type, the city will gradually replace the roads and will look like a patchwork...

Offline DrSuperGood

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Re: City roads timeline discussion
« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2019, 11:44:23 PM »
Quote
The city roads timeline is indeed defined in simuconf.tab. It is used not only on map creation but also when the city grows, or upgrades buildings. So after the introduction of new city road type, the city will gradually replace the roads and will look like a patchwork...
Only in "use timeline" is enabled. Since otherwise the oldest city road type is always used. I personally view this as a bug, much like how speed bonus works in such a case, and so instead a better behaviour should be to use the most modern road type since chances are players will end up using modern vehicles that need them, unless specifically model rail building in which case they can turn off city growth.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: City roads timeline discussion
« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2019, 12:25:37 AM »
Only in "use timeline" is enabled. Since otherwise the oldest city road type is always used. I personally view this as a bug, much like how speed bonus works in such a case, and so instead a better behaviour should be to use the most modern road type since chances are players will end up using modern vehicles that need them, unless specifically model rail building in which case they can turn off city growth.

In Extended, the road generation was changed some time ago to use the newest roads. I do not know the status of this issue in Standard.

Offline Leartin at

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Re: City roads timeline discussion
« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2019, 04:44:16 AM »
Only in "use timeline" is enabled. Since otherwise the oldest city road type is always used. I personally view this as a bug, much like how speed bonus works in such a case, and so instead a better behaviour should be to use the most modern road type since chances are players will end up using modern vehicles that need them, unless specifically model rail building in which case they can turn off city growth.
It's neither the oldest nor the newest one, it's the one defined first, and there is no need to define them in chronological order. It's not a bug in the game, it's just a mistake in the pakset.

Offline Y5mpF3

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Re: City roads timeline discussion
« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2019, 08:30:27 AM »
I have to correct me. Simuconf.tab seems to have no influence at all in the new version of Simutrans. But where is the timeline then defined?

Offline Y5mpF3

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Re: City roads timeline discussion
« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2019, 06:50:31 AM »
I've got it! I used my old simuconf.tab in the new version of the pak set. But the parameter "signals_on_left" is new and necessary.  Without that, the change from the cobblestones to city_road is set to 1900/1901, no matter what the simuconf says. Why that?
Another question:
Where is the timeline of the city bridges defined? I found several bridges together with cobblestone_road.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2019, 09:52:35 AM by Y5mpF3 »