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City roads timeline discussion

Started by Fabio, May 03, 2010, 09:29:53 AM

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Fabio

Quote from: jamespetts on May 02, 2010, 10:55:56 AM
Love the new city roads timeline feature - makes things a great deal more controllable for pakset authors, and makes things make much more sense generally. Excellent addition!

Can anybody point me where it's announced / how should it be coded?
This will go straight into my replacement project!

The Hood


prissi

No city roads in pak britain after 2050???

The Hood

2050 is the official end date of the pak (for the time being at least).  There's not much of anything beyond 2020 so it gets a bit boring after then...

jamespetts

I thought that 2050 was the highest date that would be recognised. If a higher date can be used, I can change it easily in the Experimental version.
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Fabio

Thanks a lot!

Another question:
When a the date changes, how is their replacement working?

The Hood

As far as I can tell it affects new cityroads, including those where an adjacent building is upgraded.  It doesn't all upgrade at once.

Fabio

Good, I think it is the way it should.
Also in RL roads are NEVER replaced all at once, but gradually...
I like it!

prissi

About endign dates: Most very much developed games I got are well beyond 2200, because otherwise it is very hard to construct all those stuff in recent time.

jamespetts

So better set the latest dates to 2999?
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Dwachs

Why not?

However, simutrans should not crash if no city-road is defined (ie if year is before/after all definitions of city-roads).
Parsley, sage, rosemary, and maggikraut.

VS

Best is setting no retire date, of course. Why does everyone insist on filling in random "good enough for myself" values?

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jamespetts

Does setting no retire date work with the default city road types? I know that it works with things like vehicles and buildings, but I don't think that it works in this case, because the code is different, but I could be wrong.
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VS

Roads in 128 have no retire dates, so it seems that way ;)

My projects... Tools for messing with Simutrans graphics. Graphic archive - templates and some other stuff for painters. Development logs for most recent information on what is going on. And of course pak128!

jamespetts

VS,

do you mean the retirement dates in the roads' .dat files, or the dates specified in the new simuconf.tab parameters?
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The Hood

If no road is specified in simuconf.tab, then the default is "city_road".  At least that used to be the behaviour - is that still the case?

VS

Ah, apologies then - I meant dat files. Still, the point stands - some way to make things last infinitely makes life for everyone easier.

My projects... Tools for messing with Simutrans graphics. Graphic archive - templates and some other stuff for painters. Development logs for most recent information on what is going on. And of course pak128!

Dwachs

Quote from: The Hood on May 05, 2010, 02:49:36 PM
If no road is specified in simuconf.tab, then the default is "city_road".  At least that used to be the behaviour - is that still the case?
No.
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prissi

ANd indeed, you can omit retirement parameters in simuconf.tab too.

The Hood

Thanks for the clarification prissi and Dwachs.  I will change pak128.Britain to have the final city road with no retire year in simuconf.tab.

VS

Perfect, I'll change simuconf as well. Thanks a lot for the feature :)

My projects... Tools for messing with Simutrans graphics. Graphic archive - templates and some other stuff for painters. Development logs for most recent information on what is going on. And of course pak128!

Fabio

Bumping this old thread for a bit of extension request :)

I would like newer cityroads NOT to replace older ones, if not manually (using cityroad tool).
An older city centre would have older streets, unless manually changed.
What do you  think?

Dwachs

? The city roads are not updated unless a new city building is created.

Btw, there is now a general_tool[36] that can be used in menuconf.tab to define a timeline aware cityroad building tool.
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skreyola

I think it should be an option:
0 - City roads remain original
1 - City roads update when an adjacent building is built/updated
2 - City roads update like IRL (including a period of "road construction" when a large section of the street is blocked, hehe), that is, as often as new roads come out, but at least once a year.
--Skreyola
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Isaac Eiland-Hall

Ooh, that would be an interesting dynamic... "Under construction" roads with speed limits reduced by, say, 40%... Under construction for, say, one Simutrans month(day)...

Fabio

Quote from: Dwachs on August 09, 2010, 07:07:22 PM
? The city roads are not updated unless a new city building is created.
My request applies exactly  to this case: don't update cityroad if there's an older cityroad, not even when updating the adjacent building. Take over different roads, instead. (Allow instead *manually* updating of old cityroads with newer ones)
Similarily, disallow faster roads to be built over cityroads, unless using CTRL (no point in letting them built and, within months, cityroad taking them over again).

skreyola

Quote from: fabio on August 11, 2010, 06:51:39 AM
Similarily, disallow faster roads to be built over cityroads, unless using CTRL (no point in letting them built and, within months, cityroad taking them over again).
This is an important feature I hope gets implemented, at least as an option. I just hope the code is written so that cost for road passing over cityroad will be zero for those tiles where only the path (and not the actual construction) passes over cityroad.
--Skreyola
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Y5mpF3

Where is the timeline really definited? It is not the simuconf. What I do there has only influence on the roads in map creation.

Leartin

Most objects have an introduction and retire date, they won't spawn/be placeable before they are introduced or after they are retired. City roads are one exception where it works differently, hence this thread, but otherwise there is no "defined timeline", just a bunch of objects available at different periods.

Though since we are talking about a timeline - while it's admireable that you use the search function, maybe check the date on the posts before you add to them?

Vladki

The city roads timeline is indeed defined in simuconf.tab. It is used not only on map creation but also when the city grows, or upgrades buildings. So after the introduction of new city road type, the city will gradually replace the roads and will look like a patchwork...

DrSuperGood

QuoteThe city roads timeline is indeed defined in simuconf.tab. It is used not only on map creation but also when the city grows, or upgrades buildings. So after the introduction of new city road type, the city will gradually replace the roads and will look like a patchwork...
Only in "use timeline" is enabled. Since otherwise the oldest city road type is always used. I personally view this as a bug, much like how speed bonus works in such a case, and so instead a better behaviour should be to use the most modern road type since chances are players will end up using modern vehicles that need them, unless specifically model rail building in which case they can turn off city growth.

jamespetts

Quote from: DrSuperGood on March 18, 2019, 11:44:23 PM
Only in "use timeline" is enabled. Since otherwise the oldest city road type is always used. I personally view this as a bug, much like how speed bonus works in such a case, and so instead a better behaviour should be to use the most modern road type since chances are players will end up using modern vehicles that need them, unless specifically model rail building in which case they can turn off city growth.

In Extended, the road generation was changed some time ago to use the newest roads. I do not know the status of this issue in Standard.
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Leartin

Quote from: DrSuperGood on March 18, 2019, 11:44:23 PM
Only in "use timeline" is enabled. Since otherwise the oldest city road type is always used. I personally view this as a bug, much like how speed bonus works in such a case, and so instead a better behaviour should be to use the most modern road type since chances are players will end up using modern vehicles that need them, unless specifically model rail building in which case they can turn off city growth.
It's neither the oldest nor the newest one, it's the one defined first, and there is no need to define them in chronological order. It's not a bug in the game, it's just a mistake in the pakset.

Y5mpF3

I have to correct me. Simuconf.tab seems to have no influence at all in the new version of Simutrans. But where is the timeline then defined?

Y5mpF3

#34
I've got it! I used my old simuconf.tab in the new version of the pak set. But the parameter "signals_on_left" is new and necessary.  Without that, the change from the cobblestones to city_road is set to 1900/1901, no matter what the simuconf says. Why that?
Another question:
Where is the timeline of the city bridges defined? I found several bridges together with cobblestone_road.

Ters

I suspect that bridges just follow their built-in timeline.

barryallen1337

Ah but long distance road transport most effectively competes with rail when journey times are similar. That means a route mainly on motorways - whether that's because it serves terminals on the outskirts of towns or whether the motorways extend into urban centres. Where coaches have to travel for a long time at low speeds through towns that dramatically decreases the price you expect to pay for tickets.

The penalty for using slow buses on fast roads is the congestion that results surely?

Ters

Quote from: barryallen1337 on August 31, 2019, 09:24:58 AMThe penalty for using slow buses on fast roads is the congestion that results surely?
In pak64, using relatively slow buses simply doesn't make profits no matter what you do, since you get negative speed bonus. In addition, fast roads have higher maintenance, so you might need the (positive) speed bonus to cover it.

Congestion is also something that is much easier to get on the slow city roads, than out on the faster highways. And in my experience, it is more related to low acceleration than low top speed, which do not always correlate. There are one or two fast buses in pak64 that easily can cause congestion in cities due to their slow acceleration.